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#42312 08/10/02 11:45 AM
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OK, this winter I purchased a 48 acre piece of property in Northeaster PA. with a three pond system on it.The ponds are 30 years old and the large one is appr. 4 acres. So far the ponds have been better than I could have dreamed. The previous owner claimed he raised LMB in the ponds, it turns out he wasn't kidding! In the first three fishing trips we pulled out between 20 and 30 LMB ( most 10” to 14” 1lb to 1 1/2 lb all catch and release) Now with the dog days of summer upon us (been rather hot and dry) the ponds are starting to show algae and the water level is down about 18 inches. Is this normal for this time of the year? Also someone told me that there is a type of Carp that feeds on cattails, does anybody have any info on this? Thanks for any repies in advance. Going to try to link a pic
http://hometown.aol.com/dufusiggy/myhomepage/photo.html

Jim


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#42313 08/10/02 02:51 PM
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Jimmy,

Join the club on hot and dry and increased algae. Here in northern Indiana both are going hand and hand. Some natural lakes here that never have algae blooms or filamentous algae have them.
I also have had more filamentous algae on one of my ponds than normal. I believe the increased sunlight of drought conditions is contributing.

The fish species you are eluding to are Grass Carp. Even though they are very effective on some aquatic vegetation, all the literature I have seen is they will probably ignore you cattails although they may eat some of the new tender shoots.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






#42314 08/13/02 12:24 PM
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Jimmy;

I agree with the previous post, with the hot & dry weather we've had you're likely to see some algae. I also agree that the grass carp aren't likely to eat your cattails. If you're concerned about algae Israeli carp might be a possibility. I put 12 israeli's and 10 koi in my 1/3 acre pond to control alage and they seem to be working fine. By the way, I'm from the northeast pa area (tunkhannock), where in n.e. pa is your place ?

#42315 08/13/02 02:13 PM
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Carl,

If the "Israeli" carp work for you, more power to you. However, if they are not triploids and are of a mixed sex, and are just a variation of the common carp, how do you keep them from proliferating in the pond? I would be afraid ofhaving too many causing turbid water conditions and monopolizing fish biomass.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






#42316 08/13/02 02:40 PM
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Cecil;

As with other species combinations, a balance must be struck. I count on my largemouth bass to keep the israeli carp and koi in check. When dealing with an older pond (50+ yrs)with lots of undesirable vegetation one either lives with the unwanted vegetation (yuk!) or takes measures to control it. I am opting for the chemical free route, so I am going with the israeli's and koi. So far I'm having no problems with turbid water, etc., and if I get to that point/problem I'll deal with it at that time.

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Carl,

Sounds like a plan. If it works for you than it can work for others. Keep those bass abundant!


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






#42318 08/14/02 05:34 AM
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Cecil, thanks for the info, It's nice to know that at least I'm not alone. Carl, the pond is
in Wayne county, Manchester township, just a little north east of you.I was also reading
that barley straw set out in very permiable sacks keeps the agae away, it works by releasing a chemical when decomposing. Has anybody ever tried this method. Supposedly it can work for up to six months. Not a quick fix, but something to think
about for next spring. Might be a natural way to keep the algae in check.
http://www.aquaticsystems.net/barley.html


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#42319 08/14/02 07:04 AM
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I would like to put my vote in to the Israeli Carp and KOI for Filamentous Algea (mat algae). I have used this combination for years now, and it works so perfect. My pond is 3/4 acres and I use 15 Israeli Carp and 20 KOI. This amount does not muddy my pond. The bass have keepted the carp from increasing now for eight years. The carp combination has to be one of the best kept secretes around. But you must give them time to grow up big enough to do the job.

As for cattails, mine were getting pretty thick and I thought I was going to have to spray in my chemically free pond when 4 Muskrats came in from nowhere and took them all out. That was about three years ago and I don't know if they will do that again or not.

John


#42320 08/14/02 08:02 AM
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Hi Jimmy, At one time earlier this summer I was down 36 inches in the pond we had gone 6 weeks with almost no rain and I was losing about 1 inch a day. I now have a well pump running about 4 hours a day and am putting about 4000 gallons a day into the pond and with a little rain have brought it up about 20 inches and held it. Bob

#42321 08/14/02 03:35 PM
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Hi Bob, pumping is not an option at this time. The property is vacation land and is appr.
120 miles from home and has no well or electric for the time being.

Carl, where did you get the carp?I don't know where all the fish hatcheries are yet. The closest hatchery that I know of is in Hancock NY, but I haven't been up there to see what they have. Also, how big are the Koi? Can the bigger
large mouth eat them? I know that I have a couple that are upwards of 19” and 4lbs.


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#42322 08/15/02 09:52 AM
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Have any of you guys tried common goldfish? I bought a dozen from a bait store yesterday and put them in a couple of very small stock watering tanks. I want to see what they do to the plants. I remember that my grandfather put them in a 2,000 gallon galvanized water tank that the cows drank out of. I assume that it was to keep down the algae.

I know they are going to turn into carp and herons will get some of them but, I'm curious. I just don't see much difference in koi and goldfish other than price.

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A word of caution on goldfish. They are notorious for bringing in disease and parasites. During times of year when you fish are stressed as in early spring and during spawning, your fish could succumb to the new disease and parasites the goldfish brought in.

Many intensive aquacultures have considered using goldfish for forage but have declined for the above reasons.

Also, make sure it is legal to bring in carp and goldfish in your area as some states and provinces may have restrictions on them.

Carp can have nasty repercussions if they escape you pond and end up in a waterway that does not have the predators or species to keep them down. In Austraila they are having a hell of a problem due to introduced carp as the carp are destroying habitat and eliminating rare native species.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






#42324 08/15/02 11:28 AM
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With your catching so many bass that are all so small, you might want to insure that your pond is not overstocked with bass. If you have nothing but small bass, and no baitfish visible in the water, and if your bass look skinny; you need to remove some from the system and let the others have a chance to grow.

I have an 8 acre lake which I removed about 500 bass from. All were skinny and less than 14 inches long. Now there are fewer bass, but I am catching 3 and 4 pounders regularly. I also am seeing baitfish and such in the water.


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#42325 08/15/02 12:59 PM
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Dear Jimmy from NY with the pond in PA:

Your fish sound as though they are overcrowded. Remove some LMB, and add adult bluegill at least five inches long.

Next spring, when your BG spawn, your predator bass will have more to eat . . . and with fewer largemouth to feed, each bass will get more to eat.

Israeli carp? Have no practical field experience with them.

Mark McDonald
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#42326 08/15/02 05:15 PM
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Thanks guys, the thought of overpopulation had occured to me. I have introduced some bluegill, Redear, and Pumpkinseeds, and have seen them just of the shore in spawning beds.Haven't been up to the property in a few weeks to see if there are any little guys. The pond is also loaded with frogs which I believe is all they had to eat before the introduction of sunnies. How well would perch fit into this equation, as I have access to quite a few adults.

Dave, I believe that goldfish woud just be an expensive snack for the Bass

Thanks again guys, as a new pond owner I need all the help I can get!


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#42327 08/15/02 09:53 PM
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Note To Dave D. & any interested: "Goldfish do not turn into carp". Goldfish belong to the genus Carassius whereas common carp and Israeli carp belong to the genus Cyprinus. Numerous technical differences between the two species of fish. Main differences --
1. Carp have a protrusable mouth, vacuum cleaner like, pulls out underneath ("old buglemouth" or suckermouth).
2. Carp have two fleshy barbels on each side of the upper jaw, goldfish have NO barbels around mouth. If small barbels are present the fish is probably a carp-goldfish hybrid or a carp.

3. Goldfish have a terminal/oblique mouth, like that of a bluegill or chub, not suckerlike.
4. Carp feed by rooting in the sediments and straining out living and dead plant and animal matter (omnivorous) whereas goldfish are also omnivorous but they feed more like a bgill and pick stuff off surfaces & the bottom. They are not normally rooting/digging fish unless above sediment food supplies are exhausted. Goldfish probably eat more algae than carp.
5. Goldfish (10-16")do not grow as big as carp
(30-40").
Israeli or mirror carp are a variety or strain of common carp. Israeli are recognized by being partly scaled or scaleless with bronzish, exposed, skin (also called leather carp).
B.Cody-PondDoctor


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