Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Rust in Small Engine Gas Tank

Just pulled out my old 2" trash pump to put it to work for the new year. The rust in the gas tank finally got well established, compared to its previous toehold.

The pump is an inexpensive Champion 4.0 HP pump that is probably 12-15 years old. (Maybe cost $200 on sale at Tractor Supply Co.? Similar new pump is probably now around $350.)

I generally do good maintenance and winterizing on my power tools, but I am NOT a small engine repair guy.

Questions for the experts:

Should I just soak the tank in some of the rust cleaning solutions and see how it goes? Is a weak acid treatment (like 50:50 vinegar) a better rust cleaning solution?

I assume I also need to clean the carburetor. Easy enough, especially if I can find a youtoob video?

If the small fixes don't work, is it time to buy a new pump? Or could I install a new gas tank (slightly rigged if necessary)?

The pump is pretty old by years, but only has a few hundred (or fewer) hours on it.

Any advice before I start tinkering would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, FishinRod.

Buy this: https://www.eastwood.com/gas-tank-sealer-kits-eastwood-gas-tank-sealer.html

Take the tank off and follow the directions.

See if it runs after you put fresh fuel in it after you fix the tank. If it doesn't, I bet it'd cost you $20-$25 to buy a new carb on amazon with gaskets.

Oh, replace all the rubber lines on it while the tank is off - they get old and might have hairline cracks in them.

Thanks esshup.

Just getting ready to pull the carb cover and see how it looks.

Also found that Champion sells the replacement gas tank for only $21.

I think I will just rebuild all of the stuff that is easy (to me) and see if I can put the old gal back into service. Will certainly check the lines while I have it up on blocks!

One big no-no that I've figured out is DON'T use gas that has any ethanol in it. Ethanol attracts water, and gums up a bunch of stuff. Just say NO.

What engine Rod? Tec, Briggs, Honda-what..
Might have a deal for ya.
You got my number, shoot me a pic of carb.
Tank seal, 2 thumbs up.
Carb can be an issue depending on who makes the aftermarket carb, parts are either hard to find or not available.

Agreed!!!

I have been doing that on my chainsaw, brushcutter, and other small engines for many years.

Most of the time (after being winterized) I just put in fresh gas and oil in the spring and they start on the second pull.

In fact, I am pretty sure that avoiding ethanol in gasoline has helped me NOT be a small engine repair guy!

Snipe,

Thanks for the offer of help.

I assumed Champion built the pump components on someone else's engine. However, I just looked it up, Champion actually manufactures their own engines for their pumps, generators, etc.

Further, when I started working on the gas tank in bright light, what I thought was rust actually appears to be mostly VARNISH with a tiny bit of rust around the edges.

I think I drained the engine two winters ago, but didn't sop up the last bit of gas at the bottom of the tank. Sitting that long, it did manage to transform to varnish. The good news is that the large spot of varnish and rust is well below the outlet of the fuel tank. There is a decent chance that I have not sent any rust flakes or bits of varnish to the carburetor.

I think the new plan is to thoroughly clean the gas tank and give it a little coating. Fire up the pump (with a good water supply to the intake hose) and see how she runs at the house.

If the carburetor is letting the engine running nicely, then I think I will skip the rebuild.

New questions:

1. Best way to remove varnish from a gas tank?

2. For an unknow (to you people) carb, do you think I can safely pop off the bowl and do a cursory examination without screwing up anything? (I cannot find a video of anyone rebuilding my exact carb.)


(Customer service in on the west coast, so I will give them a call later this morning.)

Acetone to dissolve the varnish. Popping the bowl is iffy just to take a look if nothing is wrong. If you tear the gasket, where will you get a new one?

Rod, you got really good advice, so I'll try not to screw it up.

As varnish was mentioned mentioned later, my uncle had a small engine shop and he used acetone and nuts and bolts to clean out gas tanks.The nuts and bolts beat the loose rust off, and the acetone took care of the varnish. He would just walk by and shake it ever hour or so. If the liner mentioned is good, then removing the lose rust prior should help.

My motorcycle and outdoor power shops use Ethanol Shield for all gases, so that's what I use. Never once had a moisture problem with stored 100% gas. The fuller the tank, the less chance of humidity issues.

For sticks, and other 2 stock engines, Red Armor is about the best oil I can find. It's a little more expensive, but it actually does clean existing and reduce new piston and cylinder carbon. Voodoo at it's best. Echo shops should have it.

Thanks, esshup. I thought there was the potential for screwing up by just examining the carb, glad I asked. I think if I get the gas tank clean, then I will just test run the pump. The carb is either clean or dirty. Strong believer in, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Thanks, Al. I just did the trick of sharp gravel and hot water, shaken vigorously. That polished up about 50% of the bottom of the tank. I am doing a vinegar soak now, to remove stubborn rust. If there is varnish "protecting" the rust, then I may have to go with an acetone soak to get the varnish off before tackling the rust again.

I also appreciate the preventative advice. Paying a little bit extra to keep a modern small engine working is a small price to pay to extend the life. I cannot believe how many trees I have felled with my little Echo chainsaw running at full throttle. Other than good fluid maintenance, I just keep sharpening or repairing chains as the only mechanical "wear" problem. Incredible!

One more question after working on my trash pump. There are several rusty linkages, springs, and things like the idle adjustment screw that should NOT be rusty.

Do you guys know of a better oil-based "protectant" to spray on that type of metal that will protect it during the working year?

I generally spray on a little WD-40, but that is not designed for long term metal protection.

Look up frog lube.

Al, I'm going to look for the Rend Armor oil you mentioned. I was using a synthetic 2-stroke oil but I only have enough left to treat 2 gallons. The local marina said no matter what gas I buy, to treat it with an ethanol stabilizer because they've seen too many cases of "non-ethanol" gas have traces of ethanol in it.

Tested the fuel tank overnight, and it has the tiniest pinhole leak. So I figured I should call the manufacturer to weigh replacement versus repair.

Wow, got excellent customer service from Champion.

The service lady had to put me on hold for about 8" to find my part number since I have a discontinued model pump.

She had to get the supervisor to help, but they said they found it and still have it in inventory for the princely sum of $14.37. I asked her to hold so I could grab a credit card, and she said not to. Her supervisor thought they took a little to long for "good" customer support. They are just going to ship me a replacement tank at no cost.

I sure hope they did get the right one! If not, I may just JB Weld it in place and connect the fuel line.

Thanks for all of the help. I hope the carb is still in decent shape.

F Rod, you've been here on the forum long enough to know and remember our favorite small engine mechanic spkplg. I believe he still follows the forum, just chooses not to post.
I can imagine he may be smiling and nodding that you are on the right track with your repair.
One of my strongest hobbies is also small engine repair. I'm particularly enamored by 2 strokes, with chain saws topping the list.
BTW, ole' sparky could, and hopefully still does, grow a pond full of dandy HBG.

4Corners,

Do you port your chainsaws after they are past the warranty period?

I have cut trees several times that were probably too big for my 18" bar and too wet to cut well with a sharp chain. My saw was bogging down on those cuts, despite operating normally under typical loads. Is that a good reason to stretch for a little more HP for a given saw?

(Might as well hijack my own thread since I have some good engine guys giving advice!)

P.S. Thanks for the spkplg update. I hope he is doing well!

Dang it Sparky, come on back.

FishinRod, glad to hear we have another saw junkie on here.
I rarely buy a saw new, and never buy a used one. Why not? Because nearly everywhere I go, when people find out I love and work on saws, they pull one or two out and say, "Would you like this? I can't start it.Or, it won't keep running." etc.
Just last weekend we drove all the way to Tucson to pick up an Australian shepherd rescue.The rescue dad gave me a perfectly good Echo 340 climbing saw that wouldn't start. Turns out the location of the fuel tank and the bar oil tank are reversed on that model. So, of course, he accidentally filled the fuel tank with oil and vice versa. Easy enough mistake. Even with 52 years experience making money running chainsaws, I nearly did the same. I caught the little chain link icon on the side of the saw by the filler cap at the last minute.

Years ago in my timber felling days in Oregon and Idaho, I would invariably have a new saw hopped up, including porting, timing advance, gutting and dual porting the muffler, shaving the piston's skirt, etc. Any saw I get these days gets the muffler opened up, the adjustment limiters changed or removed from the carb, the cylinder gasket removed, the rpm limited ignition coil swapped out, maybe something else if necessary. I don't even consider the warranty. The boost in performance is so noticeable and immediate that trudging through the interminable warranty period would be...BORING!

I've turned my 3 Echo saws, a 271, a 400, and the 340, into much more than they were when new. They run cooler and last longer with these mods. I'd be more than glad to discuss at length the improvements I've seen on many, many Stihls, Husqvarnas, Makita/Dolmar, Hitachi, the Echos, Jonsereds, and junky saws I won't name.

The Chainsaw forum on arboristsite.com is a fascinating source of info, opinion, argument, bias, and more about trees, saws, logging, on and on. It is not run so politely as is this PondBoss forum, but doesn't digress into despicable behavior as do some sites. BTW, esshup is on there.

When cutting those over sized, wet logs, try pulling your bar out of the cut every 30 seconds or so, rev it momentarily to get a little more bar oil on the chain, then resume cutting. That reminds me of belling big skanky cottonwoods and Siberian elms that have water running out of the initial felling cut. And, we were felling a stand of 4' to 5' diameter white firs in Oregon some years ago. Our first cut had to be partially made, then the saw bar pulled out while up to 10 gallons of liquid drained from that cut. If the sawyer didn't wait for the drainage, he'd be soaking wet from the waist on down. Those big white fir culls weren't called piss firs for nothing!

And, thanks for the thread hijack! HAHAHA!

Who, me??? LOL

A CS-340? Hmmm. If it's for sale, let me know. I have had one for pushing 21 years now and it wouldn't have one to have for spare parts. (You know how that is).

I don't have CAD (Chainsaw Acquisition DIsorder), I only have 3 saws. SC-340, Dolmar PS-5100s and a Dolmar 7900. Both the 5100 and 7900 run .050" 3/8" semi-chisel. So does the 340, but it's a LP chain.

Yep, cutting Siberian Elms are my wettest trees. They seem even worse than Cottonwoods, but I have only had to take down two of those - and I think I did them during winter?

I am also on arboristsite. Read a bunch of safety threads when I had to move up to some dangerous big trees that were blow downs caught in the canopy, etc.

I even bought my little Echo saw from one of the dealers in their marketplace section.

lol, I’m opposite. Since being a desk jockey most of the week, I want to pick up my tools and use them in the narrow window of time I have available. I fought a homeowners Sthil for a while, they made it very difficult to service easily. It turns out I can throw them far. I got so fed up I went out and got the Milwaukee electric chain saw.

I love that thing apart from it being difficult to get the chain tension correct as it will skip off the bar fairly easily if too loose.

I need to get a larger saw to tackle a bunch of big dead ash trees that the electric is just too small for. Any recommendations for a reliable, easy to start saw?

I still have an Echo one-handed trim saw from 20 years ago. Apart from needing a good cleaning and new fuel lines and a primer, it still starts first pull. It has been shelved for the electric as the electric just whoops it torque-wise, no smoke, and no noise.

I use a Stihl 029. Works great for larger trees it's a bit over the top for smallish work.

I’m an Echo fan.

I will go a long way to avoid any Ethanol in small engines, Ive seen several screwed up by it and even more had melted gas tubes and intake rocks on two stroke engines.
Our local Hyvee station is the only one I am aware of that claim to not have any in their high octane fuel, but even then I will run a few gallons out of the hose into me vehicle to purge the pump hose from the ethanol gas that's in it, If you are just filling a small jug its gonna be half full of the crap by the time the line is full of the better gas.

liquidsquid,

I have had great luck with my Echo CS-400. It has run many years with only minimal servicing from me (who is NOT a small engine guy). I do try to winterize it very well and store it in the house. (I stored my trash pump in my drafty old garage and that got me rust in the gas tank.)

I run an 18" bar and semi-chisel Picco chain most of the time. If you have any decent chainsaw experience, then you do NOT need to run a safety chain. I have never experienced anything close to a serious kick-back with semi-chisel non-safety chain. (I am a pretty big guy, but also out of shape, so I would say that I no longer have "strong hands".) That chain can also survive a bit of sand and dirt when I am flush cutting trees to the ground. I usually just put the saw on a waist-high flat stump and hand file to touch up the chain on every other gas fill-up.

I do have several 90 year old, very large trees to fell this spring, so I got a full chisel chain from Bailey's. I am only going to use that to fell the big ones, then switch back to semi-chisel for bucking.

l do wear ALL of my safety gear every time! Safety glasses, helmet with ear muffs and face screen down, and chainsaw chaps. I do not wear my steel-toed boots though, because they are just too painful to wear for a full day of walking and cutting trees at the farm.

My two biggest dangers are hidden barbed wire inside of trees and blow downs that get caught up in the air in the crowns of other trees. I usually go by myself on most "work" days, but I will take a family member to cut dangerous trees. A watcher is very helpful when multiple trees are hung up, or I might need medical assistance!

FishinRod, if you have sandy soil, you may be better sticking with the semi-chisel. The full chisel dulls too fast if you have any sand in the bark. I use semi chisel in all my saws (3 of them) and I did a test with my Dolmar 7900 about 10 years ago. I was told that a skip tooth chain in a larger bar cut faster than a non-skip tooth chain.

So, I took semi-chisel chain, a new loop of skip tooth and regular. Timed the cut with the 32" bar buried in Oak for both loops.

I don't know how big of a bar you need to see a difference, but the regular loop beat the skip tooth loop by a hair. Virtually no difference in cut time.

I found out that if I had the loops cryogenically treated, they lasted longer before needing to be touched up. So when I bought a whole spool of .050 x 3/8 Oregon semi chisel I had the whole spool treated.

Ask any repair shop, and they'll tell you the older Stihl chainsaws are very reliable, and easier to repair if needed. I have an old MS290, and it hasn't missed a beat in 20 years.

liquidsquid, I'll throw my preferences out, but like Chevy vs Ford, it all depends on what you like. I like Echo's for several reasons. One, they have a 5 year warranty that Stihl can't touch. Two, I have a CS-690P Echo that can handle a 27" blade, and Stihl's chainsaws that can handle a 28" blade is way over a grand, so I could buy 2 Echos for one Stihl. Three, the shop that sells and handles my Scag and smaller tools are great, and get my stuff in and out PDQ. And four, which is minor to me, is that it has a compression release if needed. I currently have the 20" Stihl MS290, a Stihl 14" MS192 arborist saw, a 12" Echo pole saw, and the 27" Echo CS-690P.

If you hand sharpen your chains old school wise like I do, take a look at German Pferd round files. Amazon carries them.

gehajake, check your Wally World and see if they have Murphy gas stations on site. They do down here, and they have a dedicated hose for non-ethanol. It's the only place I buy it because of exactly what you said.