Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Selecting a site Digging with existing water

My woods right behind my house has about a 2 acre clearing where it’s low and always holds water. It’s full of what my excavator operator called rattlesnake grass and smaller trees. I had been talking to him for awhile about digging a pond there and he thought it looked like it would be good spot. I knew it held water most of the year but we didn’t realize how much as we’ve never ventured far in there. When we got the excavator to the middle of it we figured there was about 2-3’ of standing water over about an acres worth of land. The top of the ground is very mucky but when he dug a few scoops out there was a lot of clay below it. He said he would not be able to dig a pond with that much standing water and I don’t really have a place to drain it to. After he left I got to thinking. Could you dig basically 2 ponds with a dam in between and transfer the water from 1 to the other and then at end dig out the dam. My question is though the water that is back there now is pretty gross black and mucky from leaves and crap that has been in there for years. That water would still be in the pond after it is dug. Would it eventually clear up and be decent water with rainfall/run off/ground water or will pond always be pretty black and nasty?

Where there's a will, there's a way......as long as there's enough wisdom and money.

I know posting pictures is a pain, but maybe put up some pictures to get better input.

Tried to attach couple pics

As you can see that water is pretty nasty from sitting stagnant for years in the “rattlesnake brush” and I’m sure all the leaves that have decomposed in it. My plan was to remove all the trees in that area and dig 3/4-1acre pond but I don’t have a way to get rid of the nasty water

Having no place to drain that water, or any other water that would gather during the process is problematic.

My greatest fear would be that there's probably no way to know if a pond-making effort would be successful or not.

Do I assume correctly that nobody has actually gotten into that water yet to know how deep it is?

We had the excavator in it and it was up to the top of the tracks in places. It was 2-3’ deep. So I’m thinking there’s prob 800,000 gallons of stagnant water in there now

Well, I guess you already have a 'pond,' so maybe there's some merit to figure out how to improve it.

One question would be...how much water will gather there, and how much will hold.

So, you could have an excavator circle the pond and create a donut-shaped area and see if it fills with water. If so, you could keep making the diameter of the donut larger and larger and keep seeing if it fills and stays filled.

Take the excavator from one side, which appears to be the lowest point, and dig a sump hole to pump the water out of with a trash pump.
A slurry pump that they use to pump out lagoons on a hog or cattle operation would be best but just about any trash pump should do it.
Driving an excavator into standing water up to the top of the tracks is a really bad idea, the seals on them are made to hold oil in, not so much hold water and mud out, but it's not mine so its none of my business. I own several of them and would avoid that at all cost. Ive seen several final drives ruined with water contamination in oil, none of them mine btw.
Once you get the water pumped out you should be able to dip the mud out just fine.
Good Luck, keep us posted.

Jake, he's not sure he has anywhere to drain that water which makes me assume it's somewhat level and that if he pumps water out, it may just flow back in, slowly.

Just guessing here...

Yes that is correct Sunil. It’s got some slope to it but it’s all going to drain back into the pond at some point. So would that water ever “clears up” if mixed with an aditional water.. Or will it always have pretty nasty muck water in the pond. I think I basically had kind of the same idea jake… Start at one side and get as deep as he can and then pump all the water into that. Then go to the other side and dig out that side of the pond leaving a berm between the two. Once one side is dug pump water back to other pond. Go back to original side once dry and dig that out. After both are dug out, dig out the berm in the middle and have one big pond. It’s just that the muck water will always be in the pond.

My pond started as a shallow swamp/peat bog nearly as nasty as yours. Luckily, there was a natural grade and a ditch in the woods where we pumped away the water. Actually, the forest simply absorbed a lot of it. Can you pump the water to the road/culvert? We briefly considered that, and the road is about 1000 ft away from the pond.

The first 3 contractors to bid on my project were afraid to drive their excavators in the muck. (One of them was the alleged premier Michigan pond digger who advertises like crazy on Facebook.) Finally, I found a contractor as serious about the project as I was. He brought in crane mats to drive on with the excavators and worked the entire basin for 2 weeks. PM me if you want more info.

The spoils were mostly loam and peat, with woody debris. Beautiful black dirt. I was afraid the hole would not hold water, and the water would always be muddy. I am happy to say it holds water like a champ and is very clear so far. It filled with precipitation and runoff. Maybe yours can turn out the same.

Sounds like you have it figured out. sorry but there's no land out there where it all slopes to one spot, it would just keep filling up with water till at some point it tops over that slope, even huge natural lakes finally get full and top over and overflow at some point.
The fact that you have huge mature trees tells me you are not in a flat swampy area.
I think if you will shoot some grades you will find one side that slopes away from the water hole. But I've been wrong before.

I was talking to a dirt contractor about a 6.5 acre pond project and here is how he deals with excess water.

IF there is excess water in the ground, he said they put a french drain around the perimeter of the work site, 10' deeper than the deepest part of the pond. They have pipe risers connecting to the french drain, and hook up large dewatering pumps to the pipe risers so they can suck the water out of the ground before it gets to the area that they are digging. They pump that water away. Sometimes there are field tiles that are available to tie into, sometimes there are ditches nearby to pump the water to.

This particular pond project will be 20' deep, so he would set the french drain at 30' below the soil level.

I would start with shooting grade. Test Pump to lowest part and see what happens. Your not out much for trying. Borrow or rent a large trash pump and some 4" drain pipe for some distance. Looks like knobber has a good resource for a long arm excavator. This should be your 1st call to see what he thinks about the site, maybe he will shoot grade and give direction. May be a challenge, anything worth while usually is! Good luck. P.S. i have smb and perch for you when ready.

Dang, that is a lot of work!

I posted a question (long ago) about excavating a pond in clay that was overlain by a saturated sand. I didn't get any perfectly "on point" responses.

I think that esshup's reply above, finally answers my question. If the pros are going to put in that much effort to drain the work site, then it is clear how much productivity would otherwise be lost working the job on wet clay slopes!

Not only production, but there is no way to compact the soil if it has too much moisture. SO, the pond wouldn't be sealed and it would continually leak. Also, you couldn't see what you are digging and there would be no way to contour the pond bottom. Many reasons not to dig in water, not only productivity.

He estimated that just from a production standpoint that digging in water added 30%-40% of cost to the job, and then the pond bottom still wouldn't be sealed.

Drag those water holes to Texas. They will dry up fast.

Helped build a pond in an existing creek. The creek had enough flow that we had to divert it with essentially a temporary dam to construct the pond correctly.

We may have a solution that involves pumping water thru the neighbors and into a culvert. Hoping it works. Will keep updated. Ron crimson I will be in touch about the sm and yp if and when we get there. Fingers crossed!

Having a good relationship with your neighbors is a big help on ANY property!

My two closest neighbors are all good folks and we do favors back and forth all of the time. Makes life much easier - especially since I work alone a lot out on our property.

I’m back again. I have abandoned the pond in the back for now. After we drained some water out the excavator went to what would be the far side of the pond and stuck the bucket down into at least 7’ of muck and he almost got stuck. He said he would not be able to dig a pond there as he would need a long arm and crane mats which he doesn’t have. I may be in touch at some point Knobber if I do decide I still want a pond back there-I just know it will be a lot more $ than I was wanting to spend.

Moving on I do have a spot in the front yard that we are currently digging(after quite a spat with another neighbor and me calling the cops on her). I didn’t originally want it that close to the road or neighbor but it’s my only other spot I can dig. It’s prob 1/2 dug now and its solid gray clay. It will be about .4 acres and he’s currently down to about 17’ deep

Ron I do want some of your perch and smallmouth! I assume I’ll have to wait till spring to stock but I’m very interested!

Sounds like an excellent pivot on your pond plans.

Can your contractor dig a little trench and a sump in your back area that is always wet? Two reasons: you can pump a little water to your new pond and keep it full most of the time, AND you might be able to slowly dry out that back area and eventually build your larger pond.

Good luck on your 0.4 acre pond. That clay looks like it should hold water like your bathtub!

You can have endless fun with a .4 acre pond. Congratulations!