Pond Boss Forums INTRO New Forum Member Introduction new pond

Hey everybody I subscribed about a month and a half ago so new here.
I just finished a 6.3 acre pond, max depth is about 18 ft but it has a lot of shallow water too. The way it was dug left points and drop offs channels. It has standing timber in the drainage that is flooded.
I closed the gate on May 5th and have installed (3) 10 x 12 pea gravel spawning beds and 31 blue barrel bottoms and tops that I cut at appx. 6” tall filled with pea gravel scattered around in groups of 4 – 6. I added old irrigation tubing structure and a concrete block tower and a lot of pallets.
We got 4.19” of rain about a week ago and it only lacks about a ½ inch going into the riser pipe. I just sent off a water sample to our county extension agent and should get the results in about 10 days.
I added 60 lbs of fathead minnows about a month ago and will get BG and CC next month and LB next June. I have got 2 aerator pumps on timers running 2 diffusers each.
OK now the question …what am I forgetting. ..I will post some photos as soon as I can figure out how to get them off my phone and onto my pc

Thanks
blind guy

Howdy!

FYI - see if your "blue (plastic) barrel bottoms and tops" are made of material that floats in water. If so (assuming that they aren't under water yet), you may want to permanently fasten weights to them to hold them under (or stake them down), based on the possibility that spawning fish sweep too much of the pea gravel out of them.

Or maybe you want to know if the pea gravel is gone by their floating up, with the possibility of replacing them with more gravel in a full pond. That may be easier than the task I have of finding submerged rock-ring beds and adding pea gravel to those. Interesting question to consider.

yes sir I placed the center of the barrels in the pond for added structure ..some of them did float and I had to weigh them down

If you would like more help on a wise stocking plan then please lay out for us your goals for the future.

Channel Cats are one of those things that can really upset the balance since they are very voracious predators and depending on your balance of forage vs how many you stock (or how many you remove to eat) it can get predator heavy very quickly.

You have a nice pond size congrats! However if one day you woke up and decided you had not enough snacks for the CC or suddenly wished you had stocked 50 instead of 500, that size pond is very hard to 'undo' through fishing them out and eating them. They also may find plenty of places in your structure to spawn which compounds the problem.

Most pondmeisters who have CC want to be very careful on initial stocking numbers and timing of that stocking vs how much forage is there for them to eat. Don't forget if you add LMB that is even more hungry predator mouths to feed.

On the other hand if the goal is to pellet train lots of CC so that you can catch them out freely at about the 2-3 pound range and eat them then the balance act might be a little easier.

Most of us wish she had spent more time in the stage where there was a new pond with plenty of structure and let the forage get to be quite diverse and plentiful. Then many of us added the MIDDLE of the food ladder next (consider if you are planning alternate predators with smaller mouth size and smaller appetites like HSB or Walleye which could go in with the middle rung fish as well) But the middle rung would be your panfish (RES? Tilapia? YP? Crappie and what type?) A few predators along with the middle rung is fine. In the correct area, YP can be considered your top predator for some time and meanwhile can create their own young YP which saves on your stocking budget come the next spring.

If crayfish are in the mix then consider adding a predator along with the crayfish to help control their numbers given the concrete refuges and the size of your pond.

Again, if your goal is trophy LMB you go one way, if it is steady catch of platesized YP and Bluegill you go another route.

I also didn't recognize where your pond is and the rules are different in northern ponds vs in the deep south.

I am in se Oklahoma the reason I chose the fish I did I had gotten with the Oklahoma department of wildlife they have a pond stocking program if it is a new or rehabbed pond with no fish... so free fish recommended by odw fisheries biologist I dont remember how many per acre they are providing but that is something I need to watch thanks for the input it is much appreciated

Do they require you to open your pond to public fishing now?

no sir only that you can not charge to fish and they do have the right to ck licenses

Feel free to ask questions about stocking or read other threads. Maybe other folks in the mid south (OK, Missouri, north texas) can chime in.

I know CC are very popular in the south and probably are cheap to give away too. In the north the standard recommendation is BG (northern style) LMB and CC in even the smallest pond. It creates a disaster for management as we can't feed all those hungry LMB and CC.

Think about your goals. If you want a ready supply of CC for eating then put a few in. (find out stocking numbers and share them with us)

If you read more here about how important it is to build forage first and want to be patient (the turtle wins the race every time) then research your options for establishing a rich and varied forage base. If Tilapia are legal consider how many you might want and when to stock. If you want an option besides FHM, consider putting in an order for GSH from Anderson fish farm. A little money will go along way if you buy at the right time and put them in a pond that doesn't have predators yet.

Can you source desirable crayfish (not invasive ones)?

Do you care if green sunfish become established in your pond? If you stock any hybrid bluegill that will happen and there are pros and cons of that.

Can you source YP? that is my favorite versatile panfish and I would not exclude that from your mix of fish. Once a bunch of LMB and CC are in your pond it would not be wise to try to add YP later.

This is what the state provides "Fish are provided based on the following lengths and STOCKING RATE: largemouth bass 2" (100 per acre), channel catfish 2" (100 per acre) and bluegill 1" (500 per acre)" the link https://www.wildlifedepartment.com/lands-and-minerals/pond-management/stocking-program I have been reading and studding on this for several years to do the best I can with the money i have and all input is much appreciated would love to get walleye but not sure if the pond would be suitable for them I was told to be careful with crappy as they are the first to spawn and ravage the other bate fish as the fry emerge as stated earler I added 60 lbs of 1inch fathead minnows a couple of months ago and they seem to have taken off and should be established well by the time the predator fish mature I almost forgot I have 2 feeders I am setting up also thanks guys

I think a little off the beaten path so take this with a grain of salt. If you're going to have aeration and feeders, money can't be that tight, I would pass on the free fish and stock differently, controlling everything with exactly what I wanted. First, I would stock coppernose bluegill adults immediately, that would still give you several spawns this season. Without predators, you will have a lot more BG per acre next Spring than Fall stocking free small BG now. Adult CNBG are only about .75 cents each. I would also add Red Ear Sunfish, but they only spawn in Spring so no rush on those. For LBM, next April, I would stock F1's from American Sportfish Hatchery, they call them Tiger Bass. A handful of pure Florida bass would be a great addition, but they may be hard to come by. Hybrid Striper would be a welcome addition as well.

Pay attention to water plants. If you have shallow areas, it may be beneficial to order and establish those now. Recommendations would be: American Pond Weed, Duck Potato/Arrowhead, Pickerelweed, and Blue Flag Iris. Something will move into the shoreline to absorb the nutrients, might as well be plants you prefer.

I also want a diverse fishery, CC next Spring would be added, so would Blue Cats, and the feared Black Crappie. I started a 3 acre pond last Spring with FHM and adult CNBG, & RE. By August the water was full of baitfish. I added 300 CC, 300 Blue Cats, 17 FMB, and 200 BCP.

I also kept 2 feeders running Optimal Bluegill Junior all year. When predators were added, I switched over to 1/2 floating catfish food and 1/2 Optimal Bluegill.

Disclaimer: What I'm trying to say is: Do it the way you want it, the cookie cutter free fish will limit your dreams of what a beautiful 6 acre pond should be. Mother Nature will dictate the rules on what works, we just play by them the best we can. Good luck with your future plans, I look forward to reading them.

This thread is about tilapia in OK

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=533664

there is this article that is interesting as well since it seems to be a place where tilapia don't die in the winter!

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/new...fish-abounds-in-lake-konawa/62816610007/

A lot of good input coming through.

I wonder if they're referring to Blues? Good article, but they don't mention what strain the tilapia is.

Lusk made an interesting comment in the Q&A section of the recent PB Mag about tilapia. I don't have the mag in front of me, but I think he said something like he was unsure what kind of forage support tilapia actually offered for LMB.

Just a data point in this discussion.

Tilapia take some of the predation pressure off of the bluegill.

I'll let you do the math. While the Fatheads will feed the LMB until they get to around 7"-8", the BG will be the forage base of the pond for the LMB and the CC. It takes 10# of fish to add 1 pound of weight on 1 fish. Those predator fish also need to eat 5 to 7 pounds of fish (or more depending on their size) just to survive every year. Since a LMB likes to eat fish 1/4 to 1/3 their body length, that means bluegills next year that are 2"-3" in length. A Bluegill that is between 2 1/4" in length to 2 3/4" weighs between 0.16 to 0.22 ounce. If a single bass has to eat 15# of those fish to gain one pound of weight, how many BG would that be? Now multiply that by 100..... What number of bluegills do the bass have to consume annually to put 1# of weight on each of those 100 bass?

That's why the BG numbers that you stocked are waaaayyyyyy light if you expect to get fast growth on the bass. Now feeding the fish will help; but you have to feed a high quality feed. It will help the catfish and the bluegills, but it won't directly help the bass unless they are feed trained. Are they?

Konawa is a power plant lake.

ludwig i caught that too ...warm water discharge

I am hoping to do shell cracker if i can find them and black crappie and crawfish sorry I have been on the brush hog all morning and just saw some of this yes great information trying to direst as much as i can and really appreciate the input I have trouble reading as my username says i am kinda blind I can see to function but cant drive anymore and have difficulty figuring out new applications again thanks for all the input keep them coming

Hey canyoncreek thank you for the input you ask my goals are... this is my situation I fought cancer about 11years ago i won but at a cost I have neuropathy in both hands and feet and lost most of my vision this makes things much more difficult but i do the best i can with what i have at least i am not setting in a rocking chair feeling sorry for myself I was telling a friend the other day how do you know what your limitations are unless you bump up against th em every now and then lol now that being said I want a pond I can take my grandson to primary i would like large mouth, bluegill, black crappie and walleye as my predictor fish I have already added 60 lbs of fathead that are breeding like crazy i want to add shell cracker and crayfish to add to the forage fish after reading in here i am hesitant to do to many channel cats again all input is appropriate keep the ideas coming

blind guy

Thanks for sharing your goals and we are rooting for you with your kidney issues, nerve issues and the vision troubles to continue to enjoy this process of planning and stocking your pond. Wow dealing with the fallout from cancer sounds horrible and yet you sound very determined to carry on. Congrats and carry on with determination!

I don't have CC or any other fish in the catfish family in my pond so i can't speak to the pros and cons except for that almost everyone I read about has a management issue with either too many CC to catch or not enough food for them in their forage base. Some have the added problem in large bodies of water that they were SUPPOSSED to not reproduce but they found a way to do it anyway. I guess if you want to catch a few catfish for the frying pan and you stock 25 or so for fun and see what happens you could but I would stay away from 100s of catfish in your initial stocking.

If your top predator is LMB then you again are going to want to put WAY less than the folks at the county want to give you. Think again about what esshup said about the huge amount of baitfish/forage it takes to feed those LMB. That is why if you have a long enough season for Tilapia to reproduce 2 or 3 times in a summer then that produces lots of young fish for your hungry LMB. Otherwise you have to hope you have enough BG and enough spawns per year with survival of the young BG to feed the bass.

Remember also that the LMB are pretty good at having successful spawns of their own and they can produce thousands of their own offspring. I can't speak to how many LMB you can support as your pond is large.

We all agree that RES or shellcrackers are a wise addition and less likely to get out of control or get stunted due to lack of food. Can you source them easily?

Maybe fellow forum member snipe can give advice on using walleye vs a hybrid walleye option when a pond is brand new or maybe wait a season and then add some bonus predators.

if you are allowed hybrid striped bass they can be a ton of fun for kids to catch, easy to source, and good to eat. That might be your bonus predator that also won't compete too much for forage, readily takes pellet food, and you can control numbers since they rarely reproduce in ponds.

Many of us thought we would enjoy a LMB for the predator and bluegill/shellcracker/crappie as the mid level. However almost everyone struggles with the balancing of this setup and either have hundreds of stunted skinny bass or stunted bluegill.

I'm not sure how Small mouth would do in the weather conditions in your exact location but many midwest pond owners are starting a new trend of using SMB, YP and Walleye to be their top level predators, purposely avoiding LMB, avoiding CC, avoiding both northern and hybrid bluegill due to those balance issues. Then the panfish that kids get to catch become the YP (they also take to pellets) and perhaps in your case RES (shellcracker) It would be really neat to see if you could source long ear sunfish (fun to catch, GORGEOUS to see) as a bonus panfish. The Walleye can really clean up on the young perch to control their numbers. The SMB will help with the RES numbers. If you want more fishing excitement and variety add in the hybrid stripers as well.

If SMB won't do well in your waters I think Walleye, YP, Hybrid stripers and carefully selected panfish could work.

I have no experience with crappie, white black or hybrid. Someone else can help you there. Some of the worry about crappie spawning first and taking over the bluegill position is less of a concern if you don't want or have bluegill or hybrid bluegill in the pond anyway. The bluegill vs crappie issue is critical only in ponds where you are trying to keep the LMB fed. If you don't have LMB or bluegill to worry about then it is just a matter of how many crappie will you have in a few years and who will be eating the crappie to keep their numbers in check.

Crappie will be hard to manage successfully in ponds smaller than around 20 acres. Boom & Bust spawning cycles, spawning before most everything else in the pond, eating the BG that just hatched, etc., etc. You can stock Tilapia, and you can put Coppernose Bluegills in there. Where are you at in Oklahoma? If you are East of OK City, talk to Harbin. Harbin has Coppernose, I know, I've bought them from them. Check with them to see if they have Redear Sunfish.
Harbin Fish Farm
2295 N. 383 Rd, Box 151
Wetumka, Oklahoma 74883
Spencer Harbin
(620) 968-7499
www.harbinfishfarm.com

Dunn’s Fish Farm
PO Box 85
Fittstown, OK 74842
(580) 777-2202

Dunns lists as having Redear Sunfish.

I looked up the regs and yes, the only stipulation that OK has about using their fish to stock your pond is that they require you to allow Game Wardens on your property to check for fishing licenses. Now my question is do you have to abide by the public fish size and possession limits? If so, that might make it harder to manage the fish in your pond looking down the road.

Whatever you do do NOT buy from Arkansas Pond Stockers. Long story, but they have in injunction against them prohibiting them from selling fish in Texas due to shady business practices.

yes and I am dealing with Moore's fish farm in inola they are about an hour and a half north of me many are sold out now I got a late start due to delays in construction

I highly recommend Moore's and Harbin's . Harbin's , in May, had CNBG in stock . From what I've learned on the Forum, probably a great addition for your pond, that far south. I'm in Clinton Okla. Welcome to the Forum. Build up that forage, It's going to feed your predators. I'll always take the advice , and apply it to my goals, you can't do better than this Forum . A bit of advice, from my experience. Don't buy RES or other SF's , unless a minimum of 3" long or anymore than you and your family can inspect, unless your good with Hitchhikers coming along. It can easily happen. Good luck, and Great joy with your Pond .May God bless. Please excuse my rambling and poor grammar . .

I am about 20 min south of Poteau OK and yes I like the information i am getting so looking forward to getting things going I have an email in to Moore's for information on what is available now will keep everybody posted on how it goes