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Joined: Oct 2018
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I'm gonna jump all over that because Hydrated lime is dirt cheap. You could dump a tremendous amount of Alum in 7.4pH water without killing fish.
For every 35-40$ of Alum you use a buck or 2 of hydrated lime.
PPE is a part of this, if you're careless you should be hiring someone else anyway, and with all due respect, 50% of the time doesn't compare to near 100% of the time.
I know I sure don't have time to keep doing it over and over.

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I'm going to dump some Alum and lime in my pond next week when it shows up at the coop. Very curious to see the results.

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curious? A component of aluminum is fluoride. Does the dissolved aluminum go into the flesh of the fish which if eaten goes into the human body. Fluoride is said to be detrimental to thyroid function.

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Let's look hard at this because Alum is what is used in canning foods and treating the water we drink.
There are parts of the U.S, where the rural population is much greater than the urban numbers.. The folks in these locations have a lot of problems with teeth because of a "lack" of fluoride in well water because it's higher in Alum treated city water.
I don't want to see this being used as a means of keeping people from using it when it's consumed every day by humans in various sources.

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Well, My alum showed up early to the coop. Going to apply it today. Hopefully i'll have a good report for yall on monday.

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I applied it Friday evening, Saturday morning I had 4x the visibility and zero floaters. Well worth the money.

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Bob, glad it worked. How big is your pond, and how did you apply it?


AL

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My pond at full pool will be around .4 acres. Right now it's about 1/4 acre with avg depth of 5-6'. I took a 5 gallon bucket, dropped a sump pump down into it. Ran a hose into the bucket and then a hose from the pump. One of us dumped chemical into the bucket and the other took the hose from the sump and sprayed it out into the pond. Worked quite well. I did 100# of alum and 25-30 of Lime.

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Sounds like a solid plan.


AL

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I’m not sure where 50% effectiveness comes from?I’d be out a substantial amount of money as well as reputation if we were only getting it right half the time. I’ve done well over 150 applications (after doing proper turbidity testing) and have had 2 not clear up, one was well pumping 0 hardness water back in the other one was weird runoff. Have had to reapply maybe 5 times mainly after tremendous rainfall. Alum is much more effective than gypsum in binding up excess nutrients to reduce a bloom but that is only temporary patch as they usually go back green within a couple of months.

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I had re-posted that from the figure Rex had posted. I think water hardness and pH have a lot to do with what works well. I've used it twice in client ponds based on app rate from TA&M. I did get to talk to a real person at the university to ask if I had misunderstood application rates. As it turns out, I did exactly what they told me to do. The recommendation I got was to wait 2 weeks and proceed with an Alum treatment as I have been doing.
They believed it had something to do with high pH and total hardness. That was the end of the discussion.

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I'll pass on either or, as I have done both, and I am more comfortable with gypsum application. It also gets me the hardness that I need in my hatchery pond soft water.

I can't remember if it's been addressed, but what about application costs when dealing with alum/hydrated lime? If we're talking about a pond that's big enough to require a boat/barge that can handle a chemical application X 2, what and how would the price affect the overall cost? Kenny, I would think you, Rex, or Scott would have a good feel for it. Of course, mileage $ would have to be left out since it's always a variable.

If one does go the alum/hydrated lime route, then I can't emphasize the care that is needed when applying the lime. Stay dry and have PPE for both eyes and face. I use a 3M Rugged Comfort Quick Latch, and dispose of the canisters after usage. I like this one because it's great protection, sizable, very comfortable, and it allows you to hang it around your neck while you're getting ready.

Story 1) When I was young and handsome(40 years ago), I was carting a pt into the emergency room at Parkland Hospital. Once we were inside, we passed a treatment room, and it had 1 ER dtr, 1 Burn dtr, and 3 nurses cutting the clothes off a man. Turns out he was burnt by hydrated lime while adding it to concrete. He had 1st and 2nd degree burns from the neck down, and was obviously in pain. The potential future debridement would only make the pain worse.

Story 2) I have a neighbor that was in concrete and road construction for close to 45 years. He was prepping soil for a pad that was a continuous pour, and they used hydrated lime to help dry up the soil before the pour. The HL dust got in the cab of the equipment he was on, and got it in his eyes. He bleed from his eyes, had impaired vision for a short time, and was lucky there were crew members close enough to help him flush his eyes. IIRC, he said always kept vinegar and water jugs in his truck in case of hydrated lime burns. His vision got better, but it was a very close call.

So, I don't mean for this to be a "Christmas Story" you'll shoot your eye deal, just be careful. When wet, hydrated lime deserves all of our respect.


AL

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Bottom line is Alum is not for everyone, whether it be the wrong application or someone who's never done it, it can be dangerous.
I will be the first to admit that after Todd's post, I need to study the Gypsum process but getting it to the site is an issue-for me- in most cases. The difference in cost is not the only factor here but getting 40 bags of Alum vs 10 -12 ton of gypsum into a site was a challenge for me.
I'm paying 40$/50lb bag for my Alum and 8.30$/bag for hydrated lime. I charge $1,000 for app up to 1 ac and 400 per ac above the 1.
Can't speak for Rex or anyone else doing this.
My region is highly regulated on surface water due to being on the Ogallala aquafer and KS law on pond size and location, so I don't do ponds much larger than 5 ac., most are 3/4-2ac.
To this point, I have chosen my battles carefully on a pond I will or will NOT do and to be transparent, I don't treat the acreage Todd or Rex do, but my results with my choice of product have been near 100% success..
I do use both shore app with pressure nozzle and boat application.

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Thanks. Having a pond my size does force me to do a lot myself, and makes me be smart when spending money. I never thought I'd need to have my own chem boat with an 8' boom.


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Why assume that alum or fluoride has some benefit to human health? If we die early with a perfect set of teeth, was it worth it?

Look around at all the sick people and degenerative disease. Just sayin.

Here is a quote from Charlotte Gerson, from a book “Healing the Gerson Way.” She was daughter of Dr. Max Gerson, who consistently healed a variety of incurable degenerative diseases.

“Among the factors undermining the body’s defenses, fluoride deserves special attention. While exorbitant dental health claims are made for it by commercial interests, it is in fact a dangerous poison, in industrial waste containing small amounts of lead, mercury, beryllium, and arsenic. The official reason why the US government promotes the compulsory addition of fluoride to drinking water is to improve children’s dental health, which, as common sense recognizes, is not undermined by a shortage of fluoride but an unhealthy diet, insufficient dental hygiene, and too many sweets. According to some experts (reference available), fluoride only protects the teeth of children up to the age of 5. Since that age group comprises only a small percentage or the population, it seems indefensible to force this highly controversial chemical onto everybody, irrespective of their age and dental condition.

She goes on to cite studies. Bottom line, what does the label on fluoridated toothpaste direct you to do if you swallow more than used for brushing teeth? Call a poison control center immediately.

I am not intentionally trying to be combative, just concerned.

Last edited by overtonfisheries; 08/24/23 06:43 PM.

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