Forums36
Topics41,339
Posts562,203
Members18,727
|
Most Online3,612 Jan 10th, 2023
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 105 Likes: 7
|
OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 105 Likes: 7 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,320 Likes: 718
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
|
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,320 Likes: 718 |
Shipping fish by carrier is very risky business. The more fish per bag the greater the chance of some dead ones on arrival. Shiners are not hardy fish. Often results are similar to yours. Shipping is always best during cold air temps. The smaller the fish the easier they ship with success. You would be much further ahead driving to some fish farm to get your fish.
Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/15/23 09:13 AM.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 105 Likes: 7
|
OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 105 Likes: 7 |
No fish farm even close to me. The first bag was great, and they are replacing this one.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,097 Likes: 18
Lunker
|
Lunker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,097 Likes: 18 |
I'm a big fan of golden shiners. About once a month I go to the bait shop and buy a pound of medium size for $20. Throw them into my frabill aerated cooler and dump them in...most trips I don't have a single minnow go belly up.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 105 Likes: 7
|
OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 105 Likes: 7 |
That's awesome. Wish I had somewhere local to do that
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,992 Likes: 356
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
|
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,992 Likes: 356 |
If you want Golden Shiners, I recommend Anderson Fish Farm's shipping of Golden Shiner frye in units of 250,000/bag.
It will get GS established in your pond.
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:" "She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."
|
1 member likes this:
gehajake |
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 105 Likes: 7
|
OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 105 Likes: 7 |
That's where I ordered from. Got the 1.5 inch. Heard those were more likely to be fertile. Put them in now, hoping fewer would get eaten before they spawn.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,320 Likes: 718
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
|
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,320 Likes: 718 |
If you don't have a strong plankton community esp zooplankton species diversity,,,, GSH will not thrive. Also if you don't have adequate weed habitat and woody cover habitat at 20%-25% of the pond shoreline area then GSH will struggle to maintain good numbers with a strong LMB population. Also if the pond does not have lots of small 3"-5" BG the shiners will struggle to survive long enough to get to 5"-6" long.
Maybe better than buying GSH as forage reduce the number of foxes in your chicken coop. LMB are usually over crowded in ponds creating the perceived notion there is too little forge fish present when in reality there are too many predators, over eating the pond productivity resulting in not enough food.
Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/16/23 08:28 PM.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
|
2 members like this:
Donatello, teehjaeh57 |
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 105 Likes: 7
|
OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 105 Likes: 7 |
Understood. I realize that harvest and fertilizing are much more important. I wanted to do this anyway. Will do the others as well.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,868 Likes: 301
|
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,868 Likes: 301 |
In my relatively low alkalinity, infertile pond, I've found that threadfin shad survive far better than golden shiners. TFS only get wiped out in severe cold winters, but shiners completely disappear within six months.
7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 105 Likes: 7
|
OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 105 Likes: 7 |
Doesn't a pond have to be relatively large to support those? Also, I think our winters are too harsh.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,320 Likes: 718
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
|
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,320 Likes: 718 |
Pond size is not as important as it having a good proper plankton community that helps TFS thrive.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
|
1 member likes this:
jpsdad |
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,618 Likes: 326
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
|
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,618 Likes: 326 |
However, the smaller the pond (assuming fertile) the bigger the chance the TFS will overpopulate and over graze the plankton. In my experience TFS do much better in 5 acre plus ponds. I have seen them do ok in 2–3-acre ponds that are well managed and fertile.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,618 Likes: 326
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
|
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,618 Likes: 326 |
In my relatively low alkalinity, infertile pond, I've found that threadfin shad survive far better than golden shiners. TFS only get wiped out in severe cold winters, but shiners completely disappear within six months. Probably because GS are prey for a much larger range of LMB. In ponds large LMB don't make a living on TFS. The main benefit to TFS is they are targeted by 1-3 lb LMB whereas GS are larger and are utilized by all sizes of LMB over 2 lbs. +-. Also due to the difference in reproduction and habitat choices.
Last edited by ewest; 03/20/23 10:45 AM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 140 Likes: 86
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 140 Likes: 86 |
I have ordered from Andersons three times now within a year and all three times have worked out really good. I think they dope the fish a little to make them sleepy then fill bag with oxygen and keep the insulated boxes cool with ice gel packs.
First time I ordered I bought a box of 1000 1.5" and a box of 415 3" maybe a couple dozen total between boxes dead loss at most, I think it was June or July last summer. Last month I ordered a box of 130 4" brooders maybe 5 or 6 dead loss total. Last week another brooder box of 130 4" same.
I took them out to pond within an hour of them being delivered and floated them for a half hour like they recommend then turned them loose. I've been pleased with the transactions I've had, will do it again. GSH are hard to find close to me so it is a good source for my situation. Hopefully they will breed for me in my ponds.
|
1 member likes this:
FishinRod |
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,320 Likes: 718
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
|
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,320 Likes: 718 |
Shipping fish is best done in Spring and Fall when water is cool. 46F to 65F is best for the best success.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
|
1 member likes this:
FishinRod |
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 140 Likes: 86
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 140 Likes: 86 |
I'm almost ADD when I get something in my head, last week this thread got me wanting more GSH. My WE and P in the new pond have some size and are hitting absolutely everything we cast at them soooo... I ordered another box of brooders! These were huge, biggest they have sent me yet. Split them between two ponds. I just wanted to be sure that I have some big enough to spawn this spring if the others might have gotten ate up from this spring or last year (they probably didn't). I was VERY pleased by the size of them, only one dead loss. My perch are 8"-10" and the walleye are 11"-12".
|
2 members like this:
shooterlurespond, FishinRod |
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,992 Likes: 356
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
|
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,992 Likes: 356 |
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:" "She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."
|
1 member likes this:
FishinRod |
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,320 Likes: 718
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
|
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,320 Likes: 718 |
If your habitat is abundant you should get good survival of offspring from those GSH. Lack of good habitat = lack of forage numbers.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 140 Likes: 86
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 140 Likes: 86 |
My new pond has a lot of man-made structure in it, but not a lot of plant life yet. It's a deep pond
My older pond I put half in has all kinds of habitat probably 75% aquatic cover, they should really thrive in there if they can keep ahead of the LMB and mergansers. It's a shallow pond.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,993 Likes: 732
Lunker
|
Lunker
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,993 Likes: 732 |
Can you throw some cedars in the new pond?
Placing them in shallow water with the cut trunk on the bank would still provide some excellent and easily removable cover for your GSH and their offspring.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 140 Likes: 86
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 140 Likes: 86 |
Can you throw some cedars in the new pond?
Placing them in shallow water with the cut trunk on the bank would still provide some excellent and easily removable cover for your GSH and their offspring. No, don't want any wood or brush that could/would eventually break down. All the structure in the new pond is concrete/plastic/rock. And the shallow stuff is a no go with swimming taking priority over fishing in this pond. We do have a very large beach area covered in a couple inches of pea gravel right now that will start out at 2' descending to 5'-6' then a two-foot-tall rock ledge to help contain sand sliding...then it drops off real fast into 15' then gradually to 20'ish by the far side of pond. Water is about 1/3 up the beach area now and we will shoot sand over all of it this summer. Do have a good-sized ledge covered with almost a foot of pea gravel and some stone structures in one back corner that will be around 6' with larger football size rip/rap stone on edge dropping to 20'. We should get some type of plant growth at some point when the water hits full level, but will keep a close eye on that. Our other two ponds are wildlife ponds, one around 3' 1/3 of an acre the other a little over 5' that is an acre. Those are both very weedy with all kinds of plant life, small one just minnows/frogs/turtles the bigger has LMB, minnows, green sunfish, mosquito minnows, a few channel cats and now shiners.
Last edited by H20fwler; 04/26/23 03:24 PM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,993 Likes: 732
Lunker
|
Lunker
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,993 Likes: 732 |
I think the plastic habitat you have posted is awesome. However, I don't think it is dense enough to hide GSH fry in a pond without vegetative cover.
If you are super worried about adding organic material, you can just start a bonfire and stick the cedar in it for 30 seconds and burn off all of the needles. (Someone on the forum cleaned their's with fire, but I can't remember who?)
I was just thinking that with the trunk on the bank, all swimmers can easily see them, and you can pull them out at any time when they are starting to decay and/or pi$$ing you off!
I can't remember, did you put BG in your new pond? There have been mixed reviews on Pond Boss about them nipping at swimmers. If this is the main swimming pond for your family, I would be interested to hear if lots of swimmers teaches the BG to stay away, or if they become acclimated to swimmers and lose all fear?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,860 Likes: 940
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
|
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,860 Likes: 940 |
Golden Shiners like to distribute their eggs on vegetation in shallow water, even flooded grass that is covered with 6" of water. Without the correct spawning habitat, they will struggle to get a foothold in the pond.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 140 Likes: 86
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 140 Likes: 86 |
I think the plastic habitat you have posted is awesome. However, I don't think it is dense enough to hide GSH fry in a pond without vegetative cover.
If you are super worried about adding organic material, you can just start a bonfire and stick the cedar in it for 30 seconds and burn off all of the needles. (Someone on the forum cleaned their's with fire, but I can't remember who?)
I was just thinking that with the trunk on the bank, all swimmers can easily see them, and you can pull them out at any time when they are starting to decay and/or pi$$ing you off!
I can't remember, did you put BG in your new pond? There have been mixed reviews on Pond Boss about them nipping at swimmers. If this is the main swimming pond for your family, I would be interested to hear if lots of swimmers teaches the BG to stay away, or if they become acclimated to swimmers and lose all fear? There are some grass&weed clumps that grew down on sides of pond last summer/fall before water came up that might help them untill a little natural underwater vegatation grows? We didn't put any bluegill in. We put 100 Red Eared Sunfish in last spring when we added the other fish, I was told they are much more "shy" and shouldn't bother swimmers or over populate and get out of hand. I have seen a couple of small schools of them under the dock, but they don't seem to want to bite on anything we have thrown at them...they look like they are around 6" now. Hopefully they can self-sustain and grow huge so we can eat some of them in the future.
|
1 member likes this:
FishinRod |
|
|
Moderated by Bill Cody, Bruce Condello, catmandoo, Chris Steelman, Dave Davidson1, esshup, ewest, FireIsHot, Omaha, Sunil, teehjaeh57
|
|