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RAH, after 5 days of digging and making phone calls to KDWP personnel, I finally got an explanation that KS is of the "OPINION" that SMB are not recommended for pond stocking because until the last 10 years, there is no research data or decent studies available that bust the myth as Bill talks about above.
The supervisor I last talked with says "we know this isn't the case, as it's been proven in general, if LMB will survive and prosper, so will SMB so we hold no official position in offering recommendations against SMB stocking"...

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So their position against SMB stocking is unofficial?


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I posted links and quotes of some of the government and university recommendations in a previous post in this thread. I also contacted both the university and government organization that I provided links to in Indiana and they both consider my SMB pond an outlier, and therefore do not think offering this as an option to new pond owners is worthwhile.

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To take Scott’s point further, based on my personal experience SMB don’t require any special structure/substrate for successful spawning/recruitment. I have three ponds devoid of structure of any kind and have pulled successive spawns the past 3 seasons and now face a SMB population management issue. I strongly suspect appropriate rock substrate would improve egg hatching numbers significantly, however it’s not necessary.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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I changed the text of my draft to reflect that SMB benefit from structure but do not necessarily need it.

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Neighbor caught another nice one out of of out SMB pond today (>18in).

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Beautiful fish RAH.

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Thats def a nice one RAH!


All the really good ideas I've ever had came to me while I was milking a cow.
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You are a good neighbor, RAH! I'm a little scared to let people fish my place when I'm not there, mostly due to potential liability. Looks like that gentleman really enjoyed the experience!


7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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Nice SMB!!!

Is there maybe something wrong with the fish's eye?


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Hook came close to the eye, but fish seemed OK.

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This fellow is extremely responsible, and I trust him.

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Originally Posted by RAH
This fellow is extremely responsible, and I trust him.

Smart, responsible people that would like the privilege to also be allowed to fish again in the future - just the kind of people you want to invite onto the property.

Neighbors like that are probably also your best defense against a$$hole trespassers!

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We are really willing to share if folks just ask nicely and show some respect for the land. Hate cleaning up trash.

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We live so far in the boonies that you can’t get anyone to come fish…..I need to rid of a BUNCH of Bg and catfish

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Originally Posted by Pat Williamson
We live so far in the boonies that you can’t get anyone to come fish…..I need to rid of a BUNCH of Bg and catfish

I get the catfish removal, but BG too?

And my biggest disappointment has been the reluctance of family to come out to our place. Not just to fish, but to enjoy nature. I was blessed with the outdoors as a kid (though I suspect Mom was glad to see us disappear for hours at a time), but things have changed. Sigh.


7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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Feeling lucky that my neighbor harvests 60 BG from my pond each year. He thinks he is lucky and so do I. Good luck finding a similar neighbor!

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Folks keep asking me when SMB spawn in ponds in central Indiana. Any knowledge greatly appreciated.

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I have a male SMB guarding a nest under the dock now May 11. A few other coarse rocky areas have been cleaned for nest sites. I will try to get a water temp tomorrow. The books say spawning begins when water temps stabilize at 60.0F.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 05/11/23 08:49 PM.

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Bill, I spent a couple of hours watching a male oriented vertically, moving debris as he was creating a nesting area a few days ago-never seen this before. 2 different females were working him while he was working.. he would occasionally just bump the female near the head if she got too close, just a tap and she would move away.
I spent an hour and a half too long watching that but a flat spot turned into a fairly large dish in that 2 hrs..

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Originally Posted by Snipe
Bill, I spent a couple of hours watching a male oriented vertically, moving debris as he was creating a nesting area a few days ago-never seen this before. 2 different females were working him while he was working.. he would occasionally just bump the female near the head if she got too close, just a tap and she would move away.
I spent an hour and a half too long watching that but a flat spot turned into a fairly large dish in that 2 hrs..

Would it help the SMB if the humans helped make the dish? (I was thinking a brief squirt with the water nozzle on bottom.)

Or, does the male "doing the work" to make the dish, indicate to the females that he is worthy, and he therefore attracts a breeding mate?

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Mother nature builds a pride factor into fish-I believe-and the choice of males by a female may be for something just like your last comment Rod.. What self-respecting chick wants to move in with a known freeloader? Just my 2 cents.

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SMB spawn at the same time/temp that LMB spawn.


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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esshup - I think Spawning times for SMB & LMB can overlap somewhat but most good Fisheries textbooks note the spawning for SMB begins a few degrees cooler compared to LMB. Look it up on something other than the internet where opinions prevail and facts are often lacking.


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Originally Posted by Bill Cody
esshup - I think Spawning times for SMB & LMB can overlap somewhat but most good Fisheries textbooks note the spawning for SMB begins a few degrees cooler compared to LMB. Look it up on something other than the internet where opinions prevail and facts are often lacking.

LMB here spawn when the lilacs are blooming, which is right around the full moon in May. A customer that has SMB in his pond saw males on beds 2 days ago and he's roughly 25 miles South and 50 miles West of here. I need to check a customers ponds 12 miles S of here, I know where the pea gravel is in the ponds and the SMB typically use that when the water level doesn't allow them to use the SMB spawning beds that I installed in the ponds. That's why I said they spawn the same time as the LMB.


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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