Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Permits required for a less than an acre pond

Hello Everyone,

We are starting the process of building a pond. We have 2 springs that feed a small creek at the bottom of our property. We dug test holes to 8' where we hit bedrock. The bedrock is the same depth as the creek. Was wanting the pond to be 12-14' deep. We measured out the area and it appears to be less than an acre. Im just unsure of where to start for getting a permit. We want to use the pond for irrigation mostly but also including a fire truck hook-up, fishing and possibly swimming. We are located in central Virginia. Thanks for aby advice on moving forward from here.

How much land is there in total?

If the potential pond is well within the limits of your property, I would do some 'passive' research to find out if you even need a permit to build a pond.

That 8' bedrock probably needs to be avoided, but let's see what others have to say.

I have dug half a dozen or more ponds here locally in central MO over the last ten yrs without any permits, including my own 15 Acre one, but Im sure that changes from state to state. that being said, if and when you do go ahead with the project, whether permitted or otherwise, never mention the swimming and fishing interest, that immediately makes it a recreation pond, consider it strictly a water source for irrigation, cattle, or fire suppression. Ag use will get you by a whole lot of red tape that a recreation pond wont. js
Good Luck!

It is possible to build a pond 14' deep when you have bedrock at 8',
IF you have enough elevation change to the springs that are your source of water.

What is the elevation of your springs relative to the elevation of the bedrock at the location of your proposed pond?

If the spring is greater than 14' higher, you can still accomplish your pond design goal. You need to either build a spring box to capture the water at each spring and then pipe it into your pond, or drive a horizontal sand point line back into the spring for the same purpose. (It depends upon your local geology.)

If that is achievable, then you need to dig down to the bedrock for essentially all of the projected pond bottom. Clear any boulders (you can use them for landscaping). If the base is solid bedrock, then you might get by with a 1' thick clay seal at the base of your pond. If the rock is fractured or has fissures, then you probably need a clay seal of at least 2' to seal a water depth of 14'.

You then need to move all of your excavation spoils to build a berm around the pond. Save the best clay to seal the sides of your pond as you finalize construction.

This WILL NOT be a beautiful pond that follows the lay of your land. If you have 14' of water depth at the deepest point, then the top of the berm will be 8' above the surrounding land (2' of clay + 14' of water - 8' excavated to bedrock). If you are standing on flat ground outside of the construction zone, then you will see a berm or dike to a point above your eye level.

I think that could still be very scenic if your cabin is 40' above the pond! Also, if you enjoy landscaping, then a sloped berm is an excellent blank canvas for your designs!

If you have good clay on site to seal the bottom and sides of your pond, plus a sufficient elevation differential between the springs and the pond, you can still get what you want.

If you do not have exactly all of the right features in place, then you need to decide what trade-offs you must make to achieve the pond that is closest to your dream pond, but is still technically and financially achievable. (PLUS can be permitted as others have pointed out.)

Good luck on your new pond project!

Call Dana Young Civil Engineer (540) 586-9646, x110 Bedford at the NRCS office and ask them if you need any sort of permit to dig a pond for irrigation mostly but also including a fire truck hook-up to help lower your homeowners insurance. Offer no more info other than what county you are in and see what they say. Do NOT call the Army Corp of Engineers if they tell you to do so. I'd tell them (that NRCS Office) that the ACoE told you to call them if they say to call the ACoE.

Don't tell them that you will be disturbing the creek in any way, shape or form.

Thanks for this info.

These are all great questions from everyone. We are located at the foothills of the Appalachians. Our home is on 10 acres. The log home is at the top of the property and then sweeps down to the bottom. The house is about 60' higher from the lake.

We plan to dam hillside to hillside. The stream is the property line. Both neighbors on the other side have agreed to sell the bottom part of their property.

No one can see us from the road and we will only be using this pond for agricultural purposes from here on out.

We can defintely go for less depth but I want to limit sun getting to the bottom.

I didn't realize you intended to dam the stream. Please disregard my comment above.

When damming a stream, it is very easy to impound water beyond the boundary of your property. Especially when you are dealing with bedrock and cannot excavate to achieve part of your depth.

In the flat parts of Kansas we have streams with a slope of only 5' per mile. Obviously, if you build a dam 5' tall, then you will back up water for an entire mile!

I am sure the slope of the stream is MUCH higher at your property. However, if you build a dam 14' above the bedrock (plus the freeboard safety margin), examine your topographic map very carefully to make sure the water does not go beyond your property line and the edge of the two neighbors' property that you are adding to your project.

Further, you do have experts above giving you advice about permitting. However, every state has their own specific laws about constructing ponds and impounding water in creeks. You need to use the good "general" advice to make sure you ask the right questions for your state - and eventually go through the correct agencies. Then there are also some federal regulations that may also apply.

I will say, that it is much easier to build a pond in a place and manner such that the Corps of Engineers does not have any jurisdiction. Damming a creek is much more likely to bring your project under their purview.

Can you put a damn on the bedrock? Or do you have to cut down through it so you can do a clay core?

What's the size or flow of the creek?

Helped build a dam in a creek here in Oklahoma. We worked with the NRCS office. Some neighbors got mad and called the Army Corp of Engineers. All the Corp did was inspect but they didn't want any involvement.

jludwig,

Approximately what year was that?

As I have talked to our district COE office over the years, their "engineering and permitting" advice seems to shift a little as the political tides shift.

I have also heard from someone else on the forum that the COE was certainly more permissive in Oklahoma. Perhaps the staff of the district offices varies widely in their interpretation of the regulations?

What FishingRod said,, the COE is hugely influenced by political control of the country, as of the moment they are all powerful, they are going to save the world in the next few yrs. the four yrs prior they were somewhat neutered and lost a ton of steam, prior to that they were all powerful, they were planning on putting regulations and be in control of a minute draw in a cornfield, navigable waters wasn't in their dictionary anymore. they were gonna control everything. The association I belong to did a lot of work fighting their over reach and after 2016 they just sorta went back to navigable water control.
Check out the description of WOTUS. they were going to regulate anything and everything, any draw that water flowed thru at any point in time.

Well said Rod