Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Stocking Advice for New 2 Acre Northern Pond

After many years of planning our dugout pond, construction is now underway. When complete it should have about 2 surface acres of water and have max depths around 22 feet. The soil is blue clay all the way down, so it should hold water well. Precipitation on the pond itself and a surrounding 3 acre watershed should roughly match evaporation, and any shortfall will be covered with a well. The pond will have bottom aeration throughout, although I don’t currently plan to run it during the winter so that the ice will be safe for skating.

One of the unique features of the pond will be a 500’ long man-made stream that circulates water from one end of the pond back to the other. The stream will be powered by what I call “the bubble wall”, which is a 25’ long concrete wall with twenty seven 4” air lift pumps that run through it. Together these airlifts should pull roughly 2400 gpm of water through the wall and into the stream, where it will circulate around and back into the pond. This should be enough to create a 1 ft/s flow through a 1.5’ deep, 12’ wide stream with a gravel bed. We figure this flowing stream should 1) help with filtration, 2) allow us to collect any floating debris at the mouth of the stream (like a big pool skimmer), 3) provide good refuge for forage fish and fry, and 4) be fun for kids to play in. Attached below is a picture of the pond layout.

I’m wondering what fish people think we should stock. The pond is located in Ontario Canada, with a climate similar to northern Michigan. Our priorities (in order) are 1) low maintenance 2) fun fishing for inexperienced anglers (ie kids) and 3) good eating. I'm not a huge fisherman myself so I have done as much research on the forums as I can, but advice from others here would be appreciated.

One thought was rainbows, being relatively easy to hook, fun to fight, and good to eat.

Another was walleye, as perhaps they might actually reproduce in the stream, and would be great to eat. But perhaps they would be hard to hook and not as much fun to fight.

Or perhaps small mouth bass as easy to hook and fun to fight, but perhaps not as great to eat.

Or some mix of the three.

Or perhaps something else entirely.

What do you all think? What would you stock?

Will you be feeding them fish food, or do you have a plan for forage fish, or both?

I'm wondering if the artificial stream might enable rainbow spawning, or at least make it more doable.

If you stock SMB or Walleyes, you will need some manner of forage for them. YP spring immediately to mind.

They're good to eat, too.

Brook Trout!
- one of, or maybe the prettiest fish in North America
- usually considered the best tasting of all trout
- they are the one trout most likely to spawn in a pond
- with adequate dissolved oxygen they will thrive under the ice

Thanks for the quick responses everyone. Such a great community here on Pondboss.

Esshup, my thinking was to start with predator fish, and then build out the rest of the chain from there. I think my preference is to rely on forage fish in order to keep maintenance down, but I think I could probably be talked into pellets if people thought that was a better route. What predator species do you think might work best given the goals?

Anthropic, that’s interesting. I know a decent amount about Walleye spawning, but haven’t read much about rainbow spawning. Do they need similar conditions (flowing water over a gravel substrate)?

Thanks Theo. I think you’re right that YP could be a good choice. What would your recommendation be on top predator fish? Both SMB and WE but not RBT? Or something else?

Wbuffetjr, I like the idea of Brook trout too. My only concern is that with limited fresh water coming into the pond it might get too warm in the summers, so that’s why I was leaning towards RBT. What do you think?

Any other thoughts or ideas are appreciated. What fish do people feel are easiest and most fun to catch?

ted, a mix of yellow perch, some sort of forage minnows, and tiger trout could be a winning combo.

The YP would provide the abundant, easy to catch, delicious fun for the young fishers. The forage minnows would help small YP grow. The tigers are incredibly beautiful, feisty, grow large, will consume many perch, and are a real handful when you do hook one.

The YP and tigers survive some tough conditions. My rainbows have all disappeared; my tigers are prowling the pond like piscine submarines.

Ted, you have to start with the forage fish. Think about it this way.

If you put a bunch of cattle in a fenced field with bare dirt, how well do you think they will do? How hard would it be to get grass/hay established in that field with them in the field already?

I think you could do RBT on just pellets. I have no trout experience, but don't see how they could hurt to have along with the other predators.

If Pumpkinseeds are available to you, I would consider them also. Snail (and hence parasite) control.

As esshup states, you've got to start with the forage fish. (Unlike cattle in a bare feedlot, the fish can't break through the fence and eat grass on your neighbor's property.)

If you decide on YP, you may want to put some YP artificial or natural structure in before the pond fills for them to lay egg ribbons on.

Not sure where you are in Canada, but lots of Brookies up there. I guess it would depend on you specific body of water and water temps. However, their temp requirements aren't THAT much lower than rainbows. I just do not like the idea of always having to restock fish because they won't reproduce. 4corners is right too, Tiger Trout are awesome as well, but sterile! I would 100% go with Tigers over rainbows.

Thanks everyone for the good comments. Esshup I agree that I’ll need to stock forage fish first, so at this point I’m just trying to figure out what I’m building towards.

Good thoughts on Tigers. I looked around and unfortunately I can’t seem to find any available from hatcheries around here.

I’m wondering what you all think about trying to stock “a bit of several things”, and go from there. So perhaps some RBT, SMB, and WE at the top of the food chain, and some YP, Pumpkinseeds, FHM, and perhaps some other minnow species supporting them. What do you think?

Diversity is always a good thing.

But can be harder to manage. You need a good forage base (minnow) in addition to FH.

I called my local hatchery (one of the few that has anything beyond trout) and he suggested:

- spring next year: minnows (he has a mix)
- summer next year: smb, lmb, we
- summer 2023: perch, sunfish, blue gill

What do you all think about that suggestion?

I'm no expert, ted, but I'd have thought minnows first, panfish second, and predators in 2023. Bass and walleye need larger prey than minnows to grow sizable.

can he explain why both SMB and LMB?
What kind of sunfish and how are sunfish and bluegill different?
Usually you pick a forage base and 'panfish' type based on what your final predator will be. Also most of the time we pick one top predator and line up the size and shape of the forage fish and panfish to fit that predator. It looks like you are going to have 3 competing top predators with SMB, LMB and WE. now may a few bonus walleye for fun catching is OK but the experts here go a different route with the food chain, structure, and spawning setup depending if your going to be a top predator LMB pond vs top predators SMB pond.

Most definitely. The forage base (minnows) is crucial to keeping the fish population growing in body mass. Having the correct habitat in the pond for minnow reproduction (I believe) is the most overlooked aspect of people managing their ponds. I believe the FH minnows are only for the first year or two, then another more long term minnow species should already be established in the pond to provide food for the predators. If your predator goal is strictly LMB, then BG will suffice. If other fish - Yellow Perch, Crappie, Walleye, Hybrid Striped Bass, Smallmouth Bass, then minnows are crucial to their success.

Edit: I agree with what was said above. Get the minnows and panfish established or at least off to a great start, THEN add predators.

Going to post this again for our northern pond owners to consider before stocking. Of course there are other plans that have proved successful also.

From - Management of Fish Ponds in Pennsylvania (psu.edu)
http://extension.psu.edu/publications/uh137/view

STOCKING BASS-BLUEGILL PONDS
When small bass and bluegills of the same age were stocked simultaneously in Alabama, balanced populations always resulted. When this stocking strategy was followed in the North, the result nearly always was a stunted bluegill population and a bass population unable to spawn successfully. Research at Cornell University showed that to achieve successful bass-bluegill populations in northern states, the initial stocking must consist of bass that are at least 1 year older than the bluegills. This can be achieved by stocking yearling bass 1 year ahead of yearling bluegills or combining 2-year-old bass (over 6 inches) with yearling bluegills less than 2 inches long. Researchers currently believe that the proper number of fingerling fish to stock is 100 bass and 200 to 500 bluegills per surface acre. This stocking strategy has been shown to be successful in Pennsylvania ponds.
Bass and bluegill fingerlings usually grow quickly during the first few years after stocking (Table 2). Actual growth rates will vary considerably depending on food availability, population structure, and many other pond characteristics. The numbers in the table above are given only as broad averages and should not be expected in any given pond.


Yellow perch may be a suitable substitute for bluegills as a forage for bass, especially for anglers who like to icefish. Researchers have found ponds where perch successfully coexisted with bass and other ponds where they were crowded and stunted. Further research is necessary to evaluate yellow perch as a pond fish in Pennsylvania.

ewest:

That article in it's "updated" form is now 21 years old, I see where it was adapted from an even older publication that is now 36 years old. There is no mention of what they "updated" information wise in 2000. No mention was made on what type and amount of cover was in the northern pond...

I will bet that Bill Cody has different information regarding Yellow Perch and Largemouth in Northern ponds than what the article has to say. My experience with Largemouth and Yellow Perch is completely 180° from that article.

With an all clay bottom, I would add plenty of structure before introducing any fish. They need to have a place to live and breed as well as hide from predators.

Stock fathead minnows and nothing else the first year or two. Next, introduce yellow perch fingerlings and let them grow and reproduce. Lastly, Introduce walleye after the yellow perch are well established.

It will be interesting to see if the walleye will be able to reproduce in your stream. I assume you would need to add some gravel in the stream for that purpose.

Disclaimer: I have never tried the above approach; it seems it could work.

I bought a backhoe so may have to try a small walleye on yellow perch pond here.

Obviously you missed (I do that also) the key part of the info in the context of his question :

Going to post this again for our northern pond owners to consider before stocking. Of course there are other plans that have proved successful also.

When small bass and bluegills of the same age were stocked simultaneously .... When this stocking strategy was followed in the North, the result nearly always was a stunted bluegill population and a bass population unable to spawn successfully.

They followed with their suggestion of how to stock LMB/BG. Other states have a different approach as do many here. Its giving folks the info for then to decide that is important.

ewest, I saw that and am silently questioning that. Here's why. If stocking same size LMB/BG is bad for the BG, then wouldn't stocking LMB that are smaller than the BG be even worse?

In my experience, that is not a problem - the LMB did phenomenally well and we didn't have any stunted BG. But the ponds all had feeders on them feeding the BG. Not much feed, 40# Optimal BG/acre/month.

The issue is not with the stocker fish but their offspring. The principal is to have them (LMB and BG) both reproduce in the same spring/summer the first time. Because LMB up north don't reproduce until 12 in in length (2nd spring) and BG at 3-4 inches at 1 year you want to time the first spawn together (2yr old LMB and 1 yr old BG). Otherwise there is a strong potential for you to be highly out of balance at the first spawn.

Not so sure about all the PA info esp stocking #s. But the above is peer reviewed science (which does not always = correct).

Thank you everyone for the helpful discussion.

I agree with you ewest, esshup, and canyoncreek - I’m a bit concerned about having too many top predators. For example I’ve heard that LMB will outcompete and eliminate SMB over time. Given this which top predators do you recommend? I’m thinking perhaps WE and SMB, or WE and LMB. What do you all think? What would be most “fun” for the kids?

For pan fish I’ve heard that BG nibble at swimmer’s toes. Someone told me that Pumpkinseeds might as well, but haven’t been able to verify that. Do any of you know? If so I might go with just YP for panfish so the kids aren’t scared away from swimming. What do you all think about this?

Dwight good comments on structure. I will dig into this more once we get species figured out. For the stream I am thinking a one foot layer of ½” round stone on top of filter cloth, with some areas of up to 4”round stone, as I hear that can help with walleye eggs.

If you want to swim in your pond, you do not want BG/HBG swimming in your pond. Others will disagree with me on this, but in my experience they are savage little nippers.

In my pond, most days, it helps to throw a quart of Optimal pellets before we jump in. Yesterday it didn't help.

Within 15 minutes of getting in I was bleeding in several places. Had to put a t-shirt on to protect myself from the little monsters.