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H2Ofwler I like the dock with the nice sturdy bottom pillars. Have you made a final decision on what to stock? You evidently from your pictures have LMB in one of the other ponds.

Thank You.

Yes, on the stocking we are going very slow and small numbers. I started mid summer as soon as the water started getting deep. In August I put in ten pounds of golden shiners and ten pounds of fat head minnows.






I wasn't sure how they were doing then one day in early fall I saw what I first thought was midges or some other bug emerging along the whole south side of the pond and on closer inspection realized it was hundreds and hundreds of minnows rising. I was glad to see that.




The plan is in late March or early April to do the minnows and shinners again, then a month later to ad 100 small yellow perch and 50 small red ear sunfish.
Then in early fall the minnows again and same amount of perch/sunfish along with 50 large mouth bass 50 small mouth bass fingerling or a little larger and 20 small channel cats.

Spring of 2023 shinners minnows again along with same numbers and size of everything else but no channel cats and ad 20 little walleye and 5 pike.

Spring of 2024 I will ad 50 black crappie.

After that we will see how it goes, for now we are going to go slow with low volume numbers.

In a few years or more as fish get good size we will keep a lot of what we catch to eat, especially the bream.

Asking for a little clarification on your thought process for both SMB and LMB? That plan feels a little like an old fashioned backyard rope pull contest but where you spend half the time pulling on the one team then you race across and pull for all your worth on the other team for a while too. (I don't mean to be a smart aleck) Someone wiser than I can tell you why SMB and LMB don't play well together maybe?

We tend to see a stocking plan that includes LMB as one of your top predators have a different forage base (lots more needed, usually BG to allow multiple spawns per year, and think about adding other forage such as tilapia if allowed) than when the SMB (often not as likely to reproduce) or Walleye or pike are the top predator. Walleye and Pike will not reproduce in a pond except in rare special cases where added engineering is put in.

Channel Cat also are hungry predators and hard to get out once in. I'm sure you have thought this all over.

The redear are great and don't overpopulate as readily. The 100 yellow perch might be all you need especially since you are being patient, preparing plenty of minnows for them to eat ahead of time. The 100 YP will grow like crazy and hopefully lay gobs of eggs the next spring at ice out. If these eggs have a good hatch percentage you will have plenty of new perch and won't need to restock YP in 2023.

With how many people complain about wishing they could have a better control of their BG population and wishing they hadn't started with them, you may consider using RES, YP, minnows, (tilapia?) and then have SMB be your top predator for a while and later add a few bonus walleye or pike as extra predators. Even consider a very unique top predator like gar pike or chain pickerel (you would have to locate in local waters near your pond as these are not in fish farms)

If your hope was to eat some channel cats regularly then adding a few isn't so bad but adding more than a few can decimate your fish populations.

YP are very good eating, and if you don't mind eating RES you may have enough panfish already.

Just creating dialogue since you have set the stage for some really cool 'unique' stocking plans like few others can do.

Keeping things for discussion sake, I like canyon creek's thoughts but also see you have a plan you've thought about in depth.

My pitch would be to wait on the LMB introductions into the pond. In NW Ohio, you'll be able to get healthy advanced sized LMB any time in the future whether it be from a hatchery or privately sourced. As such, I would want the SMB to get as big as possible, as the almost unavoidable takeover of LMB when both LMB and SMB coexist, and maybe sans aggressive management against the same, is bound to happen years down the line. You may find enough enjoyment without the LMB, and I don't think you mentioned Hybrid Striped Bass/HSB which would fit in nicely.

Whatever fish you end up with predator wise, they're going to have a lot to eat with your forage plan.

Thank you for the well thought out responses.

Yes we plan on eating the channel cats once they get some size to them, when/if we stop catching them I will put another small group in. I REALLY like eating lightly breaded clean chunked up catfish cooked in peanut oil!

Even with the water being deep I don't think the small mouth will be sustainable...we will be trying to ad some local crayfish to the pond and that might help some. The large mouth will more than likely be the top bass in the pond. But it would still be nice to catch a smallie now and then for fun.

We love eating big perch! I hope they thrive good in the pond.

I don't think the walleye or pike will be able to ever breed in the pond, when they get good sized we will eat what we catch and replace with small ones again. My reason for them is to help keep the small stuff under control, they are fun to catch and good eating.

I have thought about the hybrid striped bass and think they could sure be a nice ad in small numbers.

Tilapia do fine in my area in the warm months then die off once water gets cold...I sure have no objections to adding them in summer.


My boys love ice fishing so eventually we will be taking fish out in winter too. The goal is to have a nice variety with plenty of forage fish to help sustain the food chain.

Sounds good!

My 2 cents - use your plan without the LMB. Down the road if you want LMB as an extra then use only female LMB (only after large enough to correctly id sex). I would rather have a shot at good SMB, YP, & WE than LMB. One issue might be that SMB and LMB can cross under certain circumstances.

I concur with the majority here. I have found that the SMB will sustain themselves in the pond IF NO LMB ARE STOCKED. Look around on here how to make SMB spawning habitat, they will reproduce in a pond that is as deep as yours. They will have to be harvested once they start spawning just like LMB or they will over eat their food source - seen that happen before.

If you stock LMB, then the SMB and YP population will suffer. SMB because the LMB will out compete them for spawning habitat and the best places to hang out to feed, and the YP because the LMB can eat YP adults.

You can always later, as mentioned, add LMB later but after adding LMB you are stuck with them and the problems they cause with YP, RES and WE until you kill off the pond to start over without LMB. . Get your other species established FIRST. Live with and enjoy them for 4-5 years. Then decide if you really want and need those LMbass. Plus you already have LMB in one of your other ponds. Once you live with SMB I doubt you will want those also known as "green carp" by Bruce Condello.

Agree with Bill -- except these are Bruce's carp.





And in Bruce's tub

I bet Bruce's wife was happy about big common carp in her bath tub.

Feret food ?

I’ve talked with three different fish hatcheries and they are saying that the SM will not breed in my pond, even with the size depth and structure I have?

Kind of confusing.

I would rather just have smallies with perch and red ears as the main fish species for first few years anyway.

I'm not sure why the hatcheries say that SMB won't spawn in your pond.

I think they absolutely will spawn in your pond.

I wonder if the 3 hatcheries you spoke with have any SMB to sell? I’m assuming they do not and are trying to get you to change your plan. It is their job to sell fish after all. Take the advice from the experts on here who have SMB reproducing in either their own or clients ponds not someone is selling fish. Good luck!

There is still a widespread belief that SMB won't even survive in ponds. I tried to get a fisheries biologist from Purdue to come look at my pond because some of their educational material still indicates this. The professor said maybe they could visit sometime to see if I have special conditions that allow my SMB to thrive and spawn. He never did come visit, but perhaps due to the Covid-19 pandemic? Glad you all are providing current scientific knowledge to folks like me!

Horse poopie.

They will spawn providing they have the correct spawning habitat. Thanks to TJ here on the forum I made these for a customer a few years ago. They used them the first year that the water was high enough to cover them.



A standard pallet although the next ones I build will be all from engineered wood to prevent the pallets from rotting away over time. Cover the pallet with 1/2" plastic mesh to prevent the #2 limestone (same size as the rocks around railroad tracks) from falling through the openings in the pallet. Use the cement blocks on the shore side as a backer, I also put a 2x2 piece of wood at the edge of the pallet to hopefully stop the #2's from rolling off the front side. Make the pallet as level as possible in the pond, in 2'-4' of water.

H2Ofowlr

Be very suspect of the advice coming from those 3 fish hatcheries. Those are uninformed workers.

Once you put smallmouth in a pond and NO largemouth bass in the pond and with any sort of sand and or gravel beach materials it is difficult to keep the SMB from spawning. Now what happens to the newly hatched smallie fry is another topic.
The spawning nest site structure developed by TJ (member and moderator) and shown by esshup (member /moderator) is an excellent piece of structure to facilitate spawning of SMB.


Our esteemed fishy professor Dr Dave Willis from South Dakota State Univ always said that SMB will often overpopulate in northern ponds if the SMB are the only predator. Every pond where I've stocked smallmouth bass in Ohio we see reproduction and recruitment. Dr Willis and I wrote an article in Pond Boss magazine Jan-Feb 2013 titled "TALKING POINTS: Smallmouth Bass" where we discussed 19 topics about growing smallmouth bass in ponds. Here are a few highlights from the article:

In northern ponds, smallmouth bass reproduction and survival rate of young bass tends to be quite high. In southern ponds, smallmouth bass year class production is much less consistent and less reliable.
Largemouth bass and smallmouth bass in the same pond typically results in a disappearance of the smallies. The largemouth bass seem to be better competitors in ponds. However, this disappearance does not happen overnight.
Smallmouth bass simply are not as effective of predators as largemouth bass so do not consider them pond equivalents.
A smallmouth bass -- bluegill combination will not be a good idea.
In a pond with smallies alone several research studies have shown more SMB can be raised per acre compared to LMB alone in the pond.

I'm going to add my 2 cents as well..
I can say with confidence, whoever told you smb will not do well or reproduce in a pond, doesn't know enough to be selling fish, period.
Personally, I would have made some calls and ask questions about a species I know nothing about, and would have advised the customer what I learned and where he could obtain them if they are a fit. Not everyone thinks the same way though.
As mentioned above, there are many ways to manage smb in a pond with certain species of other types, but for every other type of species added there is less room for the others. There will be competition, minor, major or somewhere in between.
In my personal pond I stocked smb 4yrs ago and I have 4 yr classes of fish. I have YP, a few BG and RES.
BG are not recommended as smb cannot control their potential reproduction....alone.
I keep a few small walleye in the mix and a few wipers (HSB) to help work on those sunfish, Yeah, they may get some smb too, but numbers seem good, fish are healthy.
It's good you're here because I think there is more experience here when it comes right down to it, than anyone selling fish as their mainstay, for several reasons.
Do your homework on all of this, to include what fish you buy and where.
If I were to add anything to your plan I would suggest you not add anymore FHM or GSH. You can have so much reproduction they can eliminate a bloom and literally become lean, causing a slowdown in reproduction, which will require some predation to get just that part back in balance. Save your money and put it in the direction of other intended species.
To add a second item.. be patient, don't try to make it an instant fishery.

Thanks for the replies!
The hatcheries I talked with do sell SMB, maybe they just wanted to sell me more?

I'm going to take it very slow on the stocking, want to get the forage fish going good before adding top predator's. This spring it will just be FHM and GSH end of this month then in May 50 RES and 100 YP. The pond is pretty big and very deep with plenty of good structure. Next fall the plan is to ad maybe 50 SMB and 50 more RES and 100 more YP.

NO BG EVER.

Then next spring 2023 maybe a dozen small walleye and a couple small pike. I am in no hurry, I've got plenty of time to let the population build up. As the walleye get caught they will be eaten if they have decent size...so will the perch and RES.

Good plan. Walleye at 17" will probably be about the max you want. I pull mine when caught at/over 16". I add a few each fall-as many as I harvest. The HSB rarely show up, maybe 1-2 a year, but they won't reproduce and their gape size limits target forage somewhat.

I started my SMB in a 1 acre pond by adding 10 fish in 2 consecutive years. I have a healthy spawning population now. My other species were YP, GSH, RES, and lake chubsucker. I added FHM at the beginning as well. YP, GSH, and SMB were all fat and happy based on the ones caught through the ice by a friend and his son this winter. Small lake chubsuckers and YP used to wash out the drain during flooding, but i have not seen this since installing a water control box to raise the water level in the pond by 1 foot (emergency spillway has never been used in this pond). I used rocks for my spawning structure based on info provided here. I located my bigger rocks on the deep end to keep the smaller rocks from rolling downhill. My smaller rocks were bigger than the 2" crushed limestone shown above.

I have to ask. What are the carp doing in the bathtub? I'm obviously missing something I just don't know what.

Truly, no one knows. It was a picture someone found. As it's a disturbing image, we started attributing it to certain forum members as a mild abuse.

Well, that's some funny stuff! Thanks!!