Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Channel Catfish Pond. Adding Other Species?

They type of algae that causes the off flavor is usually planktonic, not filamentous, so I am not sure if the Tilapia will or will not control it, or if the Tilapia will be "off flavor" too. That's where the non-copper based algaecide comes into play.

With all of the good advice you guys have given me, these catfish are going to think they are living in a fancy resort, rather than an old mudhole in Kansas!

It appears that the consensus is to try adding the tilapia to the CC pond.

I will also have to work on taste-testing both types of fish. (We have finally found a pond management task that matches my skill set!)

If the catfish muddy the pond and reduce the light penetration, will that serve to somewhat inhibit the growth of planktonic algae?

This leads to an even broader question. Are there any circumstances where a pond with high turbidity due to suspended clay particles is actually advantageous to the fish management goals?

Yes the clay turbidity will inhibit the growth of planktonic and filamentous algae.

Other than reducing light penetration into the water, I think there are more disadvantages than advantages to the clay turbidity. Too much and you have respiratory issues, it's harder to find food, O2 levels will need to be monitored due to reduced phytoplankton (it's a fine line between too much and too little phytoplankton when it comes to O2 production). There may be more but it's getting late and I'm slowing down. LOL

Thanks for all of the help, esshup.

If you keep posting more answers, then I will keep posting more questions! (The more I know, the more I realize that I DON'T know.)

When I am causing sleep deprivation it is probably time to rein it in a little.

I did think the negatives due to clay turbidity would almost certainly outweigh the positives. However, I wanted to pose the question just to get a better handle on the relevant factors for our ponds.

Just to add my 2 cents. I did not notice anyone mention that CC will make their own spawning place. I have a half acre 100% clay pond. I was told they would not spawn, however they did, they made a hole in the side of the pond to spawn,\ that was one surprise, the other is no one mentioned that it does not take long for them to grow to a large size! After about three years we were catching 10-12 pound, 20-28 inch CC. At that point they become the top predator and have a mouth that can eat anything in my pond, I feed them! I have LMB, BG and GSH, feeding Aqua-Max MVP keeps everyone happy and the CC do not eat everything in the pond. Big CC are fun to catch and even better eating! Just a few thoughts to share I did not see in the conversation, hope this info helps.

Most of the research I have read is that specific types of planktonic algae are most vulnerable to TP. One of the effects of TP is that they change the mix and proportion of populations (much like cattle will do in a pasture). The algae most vulnerable to TP are blue-green bacteria algae and their presence will cause other types of algae to be in higher abundance and dominantly present. When crop contents are examined, the tendency is that primary planktonic algae present is of the blue-green varieties. References I have read suggest or claim that it is the reduction of these types of planktonic algae that reduce off-flavor in catfish.

It may not be the consumption of the of these algae that causes off-flavor ... rather ... it may be related to their abundance. The catfish, for example, aren't eating them so why are they off flavor? One possible explanation is that blue-green algae introduce chemical aromatics to the water column that find their weight into the flesh of fish. Another possibility ... may be because the blue-green algae are not preferred by most pond organisms and/or because those that do prefer them are scarce due to fish density ... which leads to most blue-green dying of old-age. In such a possibility .. decay of these individuals release aromatics to the water. In cases where the blue-green algae are under cropped by predators, there is just a lot more of them in the water.

If one inhibits planktonic algae by algaecide, some water quality parameters will suffer. Also FCR will suffer because one will lose primary production that thrives in the feed wastes. There is such thing as too much bloom but the best solution would be its consumption. TP are good consumers but they will not prevent the bloom of other varieties of planktonic algae. Inoculation of other consumers may hold promise and this kind of solution would also increase yield.


That's great point and I have to wonder when or if fingerling producers will introduce female lines or sterilized fish for recreational use. Triploidy which is induced by pressure shocking through the first meiotic division generally eliminates reproduction and increases rate of growth. TP can be sterilized by temperature alone and perhaps we will discover so can catfish. Fish that don't engage in reproductive activity and the production of gametes grow a lot faster as this energy is directed into growth.

I once heard(Lusk), and it is my observation, that channel cats seldom pull off a successful spawn. They spawn later than other fish, go everywhere in a school, and are easily picked off by everything else.

To be sure ... but this doesn't prevent the large males from creating cavities and such. If this this behavior can be prevented or eliminated ... it might be desired by some folks.

Thanks for all of the comments regarding the CC spawning.

The articles I read indicated that if CC do spawn, then they are very prone to stunting in a pond that lacks non-CC predators. "A single female catfish can spawn 2,000 to 50,000 young." That is the reason I asked the question about a few HSB or single-sex LMB in the pond.

I had also decided on zero "intentional" spawning habitat. However, Funky reports from his own pond experience that they did spawn - apparently by creating their own spawning holes in the clay banks.

Dave, then posts that in his own experience, PLUS Lusk's experience, that "CC seldom pull off a successful spawn".

I read "successful spawn" as an ambiguous term.

It could mean, "With no good spawning habitat in the pond, the CC could not deposit fertilized eggs, so there will be no successful spawns."

It could also mean, "Even though CC were capable of creating a large number of fry in the mixed-species pond, they were incapable of having a successful spawn because virtually zero fry were able to reach adulthood."

If the second meaning is the most common usage of "successful spawn", then I probably do need a few additional top predators in the pond.

My CC-only pond, now includes RES, tilapia, and HSB!

"It depends!" is by far the most common answer on Pond Boss.

One of the huge reasons I am choosing Blue Cats over Channel Cats is that very reason. BC tend to ride higher in the water column than CC, and don’t rummage around the bottom as much.

Rod, it means predation.

Old engineering truism, "If you really want your pants to stay up, then use a belt AND suspenders."

It appears that the consensus is to have zero intentional spawning habitat AND a predator.

In that case, I really think that HSB would make a great predator. Aren't they more adapted to hunt schooling fish (like shad), and therefore be highly effective against small schools of CC fry? (As compared to an ambush predator like LMB.)

Only if the schooling CC fry stay in the open water areas of the pond.

So add a few single-sex LMB.

Do you guys remember reading "There Was an Old Lady Who Swallowed a Fly" to your kids?

I am starting to get that vibe for this proposed CC pond.

The amazing thing is, it is all good advice!


Thanks,
Rod

Dave Davison1 , I have heard that before as well, but no one told my CC. Started with 25, half died and now I have MANY, no problem catching the smaller ones, but it is a job to catch the big ones. Last big one was 14+ pound and 30.+ inches long, was fun !

Funky,

Are your MANY channel cats a good population distribution or a lot of stunted little CCs?

(In your CC, LMB, BG, GHS pond.)

Funky, never seen or heard of that. But then, I know nothing about cold water and fish.

FishingRod,

My brother in law has two ponds in northern OK. One has golden shiners and CC, the other has CC, Longears, and GSF. The second 'might' have LMB from a farm pond upstream but I have yet to see one when fishing it. He uses the first pond to produce fingerlings to stock the second one. This arrangement has worked very well for him through the years.

The biggest fear of CC in monoculture where brood are reproducing in the grow out pond is too many CC offspring in the sizes we used to call "fiddlers" when they would plague us fishing for bigger fish. But for the most part, provided the number of brooders is limited to 3 to 4 of each sex per acre, feed and harvest can work to resolve most overproduction of CC offspring in monoculture. If a situation arises where growth is slow, CC in the 9 to 12 inch lengths can be harvested and dressed like you would a bullhead. Takes 15 seconds ... literally ... to clean one and they are very good to eat. One needs to harvest at a rate of about 1 lbs to every 1.5 to 2 lbs of feed in order prevent excessive standing weights. The sizes one needs to harvest at will depend on recruitment.

As far as we know, the CC are unable to recruit in the pond with GSF and LES. But there is plenty of recruitment in the other pond which serves as a source of stock for the larger - clear water pond where they grow large very fast and are high quality table fare.

If one doesn't mind, or likes as do I, to eat pan dressed catfish. One can double stock a growout and harvest 1/2 when they have attained half the growout weight (individuals). This prevents the gross standing weight from exceeding a predetermined limiting standing weight and increases yield by 50%. This is very affordable to do if you have access to commercial sources of fingerlings or can grow them yourself as my brother in law does.

jpsdad,

That sounds like an excellent "system" for good CC fishing and eating!

I might try a "poor-boy" version of that.

I think the consensus is for zero intentional spawning habitat in the CC pond. I wanted to then place 3-4 CC in a micro forage pond with spawning structure. If they pull off a successful spawn, then I will lower the water level and remove the adult CC. I will then try to grow out the appropriate number of fry to a size that will survive being transferred back into the main CC pond.

Anybody have an idea on the minimum size requirement of the micro-pond for the CC to spawn?

I don't think there's really a minimum, considering they are often bred in cages within a pond, or in concrete raceways. Just my 2 cents.

We're it me, I think I would try to grow 3 to 4 years worth of fingerlings every 3 to 4 years where the fingerling attain 6" the first summer and are then fed slow growth maintenance rations thereafter. One thing I will mention, 1 to 2" fry could be purchased for no more than 20 cents each, probably less. This is what catfish farmers who grow their own fingerlings purchase. They grow them to 6" then use them stock grow-out ponds.

It takes a year and a half to grow a CC to >1 lbs. They really need to be longer than 4" in the spring to make a fish you can filet by fall. So 6" fish is almost 3 times better than a 4" one. But once you get them to 6" you can grow them very slowly and stock following years. This may be especially helpful if you are actually hatching the fry as you mentioned interest in above. Think about how you would like to manage the growout pond of .5 to 1 acres. How much production do you want? what will be your annual stocking rate? From there decide whether you will grow new fry yearly or try to keep fingerlings over a 3 or 4 year period. After that I could share some ideas on how big a pond to devote to fingerling grow-out.

Thanks Steve,

A cage in the pond might be an even better idea!

It appears that the CC fry leave the nest after about a week of being guarded by the male. Is there a mesh fine enough to retain 1-week old CC fry?

If so, I could transfer as many as I want into the grow-out pond and set the rest free in the creek.

I was too quick on the draw (yet again).

Apparently, it is much easier to collect the eggs than the fry. I think one breeding container in the pond for the collection of eggs is the best option. I can be removed after one spawn (or may two?).

Think my wife will let me have a fry tank in the basement?

Also excellent advice, jpsdad.

Usually the best "poor boy" practice is to let the professionals do their job - since they have more experience and better facilities. I seriously doubt I could generate 1-2" fry for 20 cents each!

OTOH, I am not shy about throwing out my crazy ideas onto the PB forum. If the experts deem it only "half-crazy", then I might do it for the fun and learning experience, rather that actually saving money.

I live for the half-crazy ideas! Without crazy, or half-crazy ideas, we wouldn't have the knowledge that we have now!

Edit: Oh hey, it's showing that today is my birthday, but its not until tomorrow (17th).