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Gpaugh - My experience of using 100 walleye per acre did not do much for reducing GSF. I eventually had to kill and restart the pond. Maybe the HSB will help reduce GSF but I doubt it because the HSB primarily live in a different area(open water) compared to the GSF who favor structures and rocks close to shore. My best opinion at this point is LMB are the best predator for GSF.


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Thank you Bill
I really don’t want to put in LMB just yet, and I sure don’t want to kill the pond and start over…my wife would kill me!!! Guess I will break out the Z trap and try to reduce their numbers and hopefully the HSB and yellow perch will move in a little closer and earn their keep. One more question, I know HSB grow fast, but do they normally get this big this fast? We are talking a little over three months and they flat out jumped up there, it’s like nothing I have ever seen

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Bill, what about adding more WE to get to 200-250/ac?


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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What about flatheads or channel cats

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Flatheads will eat anything that they can fit in their mouths, Channels have to be at least 3#, and that would take a while. LMB would be best, but that doesn't fit in with the OP's pond goals so they are out.


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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The best predator against a GSF (other than a bass) is a human. I'd start with a rod and reel, get some family and friends to help, and put a hurtin' on 'em. Find where they like to hide, which in my experience is close to shore, particularly around rocks, and see what you can do. Channels will work, but like esshup said, you'd have to stock some bigger ones.


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Or a seine.....


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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+ 1 on the seine.
















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Come to Pond Boss for expert advice,

and people give you inseine solutions! laugh

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You purchased RES from hatchery and they sold you GSF? If I understand this correctly the hatchery is legally liable to correct their mistake which one can argue would include cost of draining, seining, and replacing all fish...that number could get very high and quickly. At the minimum I would contact the hatchery and make them aware they potentially destroyed your fishery goals and see what they're willing to do. Stocking your pond with verified RES is the minimum they should do. Bottom line: This should not be your problem to resolve alone.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Gpauh says - "I know HSB grow fast, but do they normally get this big this fast? We are talking a little over three months and they flat out jumped up there, it’s like nothing I have ever seen"". They are the fish that ate all your FHM and will soon in probably the next 2 years eat most all if not all your GSH. I estimate so far the HSB have eaten about 1 GSF for every 50-100 minnow as FHM-GSH. Sacrifice one fat HSB for dinner and check its stomach contents. He could stock 200-300 WE
and he will then be able to tell us if a whole lot of overstocked WE will control GSF. Plus it is expensive. It would have been cheaper for me to kill the pond than buy 100 6"-9" WE per acre.

I don't think the CC will encounter very many resting GSF among the shoreline cover at night.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 09/22/21 03:48 PM.

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Teehjaeh,
I never though about that, I am going to dig up my receipt and give them a call. When I bought them they were two to three inches long and there were no red tinges on the ear flaps, I was told they are too young for the flaps to have any red on them, I have never seen a RES in the pond, I have trapped ( Z trap ) and fished for them. nothing but GSH. I catch about 30 a day, doesn’t even make a dent in them. My only problem at this time is proving that they sold me GSH instead of RES, they could very well say that I introduced them to my pond so prove that we sold em to you, but it is worth a try, never know, thank you, I am going to give it a shot.
Do you think one flathead would help, I already put one LMB in to se what it can do

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Bill, that is an excellent idea, I just came in from fishing the pond and caught anouther HSB about the same size, dang, wish I would have thought about doing that. Next one I catch is going to get an autopsy and a grease bath, that’s a relief at least knowing I have a shot at ridding my pond of these little bast****
Thank you, that puts my mind at ease

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Okay - back on Sept 19 Gpugh says "The red ears that I bought ( 100 ) and stocked turned out to be GSF, and they are multiplying like crazy."
Are you absolutely sure that the Fish Farm sold you green sunfish(GSF) instead of RES?? You told us you filled the pond using a 2" trash pump. A 2" trash pump will EASILY transfer live GSF with little or no damage through the pump & hose. I did this in just 2 hrs of pumping my current female only YP pond. Dummy forgot to attach the filter sock to the discharge hose. If you did not filter the pump creek-ditch discharge water through window screen size or better smaller mesh then at least a few or maybe a few hundred GSF fry to 1" sizes were transferred into your pond. GSF breed at around 1.5" long. I've killed lots of GSF in ponds where pond owners did not properly filter pumped creek water. Where or what fish farm did you buy your RES and how reputable is this fish farm? RES could have been contaminated with a few GSF but I very much doubt all the RES they sold you were GSF.

When you sacrifice the HSB make sure is looks plump and full of food. Gut may contain mostly mush which would be fish pellets. Maybe don't feed the fish for 2-3 days before catching the next HSB so its stomach is not full of pellets.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 09/22/21 08:35 PM.

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Bill,
I have a screen on the intake ( suction ) side of the trash pump, nothing on the discharge side. The holes on the suction side are about 1/4 in diameter. They are too small for a FHM to go thru, but I suppose a GSF fry could be passed thru it, and I pumped from the creek for about 3 months to fill the pond. I bought the fish from Ozark Cat fisheries at the lake of the ozarks. Their reputation is pretty good from what I can tell, they ship fish all over the world according to their website. I don’t like pointing fingers at them without proof, it’s more than likely that I introduced them from the creek, just didn’t think they could survive the impeller of the pump and then go thru 400’ of hose, but that does make sense, again I hate the thought of accusing them, it’s just there was no red on the flaps, and I have been trapping and fishing hard for them, have not seen any???

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Do you have any clear close-up pictures of those Ozark 2"-3" RES that were stocked?? Did you mean to say Osage Catfisheries??? Osage catfisheries do not even list RES as one of their special fish they deal with. I can identify if they were RES or GSF. I have training and years of experience in identifying fish even as small as newly hatched fry to the point they develop scales which is a whole different process than identifying fingerling fish with scales.
NOTE: Also I will bet at least a 6 pack of beer that Ozark (Osage) buys all their RES and does not self-raise any of them. If that is the case, it is now very unlikely they sold you green sunfish. If Ozark raises their own RES then it is possible they had a few GSF were in with some of the RES they sold you. It all depends!

One quarter inch long GSF and probably all sunfishes even up to 1/2" can easily pass through 1/4" dia holes of a suction strainer, the pump, and 400ft of hose. 2" trash pumps are designed to move larger particles. That's why they call them trash pumps. I have seen small fish numerous, many, many times get pumped through pumps especially if the pumping occurred during any of the spawning season of GSF. 1/4" holes are large openings when fish fry are present.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 09/22/21 08:56 PM.

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Bill, you are correct, I bought them from Osage Catfisheries. I also bought my YP and GSH there at the same time. I am getting ready to go on a fishing trip for a few days, but before I leave I will have my wife take pictures of the ones I catch in the trap (providing I can figure out how to post them here) Do you want the pics against a white background? I have a sick feeling that I messed up my stocking plan by pumping in un-filtered water from the creek.
I really appreciate all the help you (and everybody here) are providing, thank you very much
Gregg

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The RES that I put in my lake, never are caught. But I know they are there because I catch them in a cast net and 1 time in 5 years I caught one in a trap.


61 acre water shed lake. bass, channel cat, black crappie, wiper, walleye, redear sunfish, blue catfish and bluegill. To many bullhead and common carp
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Gough,

There is a much higher probability that the GSF came by some way other than the RES stocking. Surely you would have made the connection and noticed the more bass-like appearance of them. It would have stood out. To be sure, they must have comprised a small proportion of the stocking to have gone unnoticed if the stocking was contaminated. Even so, as few as a single pair could contaminate the pond. Generally, however, growers use ponds that have no watershed and source water is well or filtered so that is why I suggest the contamination comes from somewhere else.

Anyways, GSF love to travel in high water events and could very well be sourced to water above or below your pond. Some yaywho may have stocked it by bucket. This sucks and I feel your pain. I noticed you have HSB and RES, so were these intended to be the sole species mix? What is your focus? The predator or the prey? IOW do you want a pan fish pond or one with large predators?


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It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


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Gpugh - You can send the pictures to may email. Watch your Private Message for my email address. However I highly suspect that most if not all your current small sunfish are the GSF because they are much more prolific and tend to dominate the all the other small fishes in the pond. If you have had a RES hatch this spring-summer there just might be a few YOY RES in the trap caught fishes. Have the trap fish sorter look for any of those sunfish that appear different with smaller mouth and wider taller body than the others. For the picture any color background is okay - most important is a clears close-up SIDE VIEW of the fish that mostly fills the entire picture frame using the camera Macro setting or a good cell phone close up can work.


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The Jumping Ability and Behavior of Green Sunfish (Lepomis cyanellus) at the Outflow of a 1.6-ha Pond , Transactions of the American Fisheries Society
Volume 103, 1974 - Issue 3 , James E. Ellis

Effects of a plunging water flow on the behavior of green sunfish (Lepomis cyanellus) 7.1 to 9.7 cm in total length were studied at the outflow of a 1.6-ha pond. Jumping ability and behavior were measured at 12-hr intervals using a fish's position in a 0.9 m2-vertical grid or in the discharge pipe. Activity was influenced by flow rate, time of day, and time of year. Fish jumped up to 10 times their body length and traversed a horizontal distance of 0.6 m. Fish with the greatest mean length jumped the highest. The majority of the fish were captured during the 0600-hr tending period: 79.9% pipe only study and 82.4% pipe and grid combined study.

IIRC in this study GSF jumped 20 ft upstream to a vertical pipe 2 ft above the outlet.
















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I previously posted a question on the forum about the safest way to pump from a creek to avoid unwanted inhabitants in the pond.

As usual, the forum members gave me lots of good advice!

Here is the link for anyone that wants additional information on that topic.

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=527981#Post527981

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Strongly advise against stocking a FHC. Seine, trap, cast net, angling collection will help reduce numbers. Follow advice already provided here. Once you thin them out you may need to perform another RES stocking depending on what you're witnessing during your collection efforts. Be sure to correctly ID species and release any RES you collect. You can build a cage and use GSF as feed for your HSB or other predators in the pond if you choose. I repurpose unwanted or underperforming fish in my ponds as supplemental forage and results are tremendous plus I feel good about efficiency of the efforts - turning waste into a resource.


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jpsdad, my goal for the pond is more for predators, walleye, HSB, and YP. They don’t have to be trophies, just decent sized, to have fun catching and to eat. I have been stocking the prey fish for about two years, don’t know if one would consider YP as predator or prey, in my case I consider them both, let their YOY be food for the Walleye, HSB, and adult YP. The YP have been in for a little over a year and I am just starting to stock the Walleye ( October ) and HSB (June 16 of this year ) it’s a little different plan, just wanted to try it out. If it doesn’t work out, I will release the hounds,LMB.

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Fishnrod
Thank you for the link, man did I ever screw up, I guess we learn from our mistakes, hopefully Bill is correct and in a few years the HSB will take care of the problem

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