Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations How much growth is too much?

I lost my original largest CNBG to fungus (probably due to severe cold snap stress to spawners) in October 2017, but the crop behind them has come on like gangbusters. Relative weights near the feeders are 140 plus.

Totally delightful, and much better than my LMB results. But is there a point at which I should reduce feeding even when they are still chowing down on it? Can growth be too fast, shortening life? I dispense a total of 120 pounds a week from 3 feeders, 40 pounds each, 3 sessions a day, and each session the fish finish it in five minutes or less. Sometimes Purina MVP, sometimes Optimal BG. FIsh are very happy with either.

Also, is there ever a time when it is appropriate to harvest CNBG? I know the more prey, the better for LMB, but the sheer numbers and size of CNBG I'm seeing are amazing. Would leave the 9 inch plus males in the pond, of course.

I don’t know whether growth shortens life. I expect there may be a point. I would harvest for the table but doubt that I would try to reduce numbers for health by cutting back on feed.

Do you have a concern about the numbers/biomass leading to an O2 shortage? I guess that could be possible.

I’m surprised that you have bass that disappoints you. This generally amounts to a lack of appropriately sized prey/forage.

Maybe the disappointment in your lmb is due to this past spawn. My lmb went down or ( did not look like they did last fall) after the spawning season. My RW were higher last fall than they are now, I think it is due to them just getting over the spawn. As far as feeding, I'm throwing for 3 times per day for a total 9 sec per day per feeder and it is gone all most as fast as the feeder will throw it. I am seeing some 9 to 12" lmb feeding on the feed. They have seemed to feed trained themselves. One more thing that might be affecting my RW's is that the bushy pondweed provides too much cover for the bg to hide in. You mentioned your BPW, do u think it might be giving the bg too much cover?

Dave, I don't fear DO shortage so much as extreme weight possibly shortening life of CNBG. Maybe that's not really an issue with quality high protein feed like Aquamax MVP or Optimal, though. Pond viz is around 28 inches, which sounds fairly clear but is actually the best bloom I've ever achieved.

Tracy, I think part of the problem with my last survey was that it was a month late, thus post spawn, and that it was during sunny hot conditions that kept larger LMB deep. The lateness was my fault, as I cancelled a scheduled April appointment due to morning thunderstorms that let up later in the day. Couldn't risk someone dying at my place just to look at fish, but my caution proved unnecessary. Judging by what happened a few days ago, there are some really big fish in there.

BPW is a problem now, not only for the LMB but also for fishing in many areas. It grows deep! Grass carp are gonna be needed, I guess. I wanted to do a drawdown to help control the weeds last winter, but ran into practical issues that made it impossible. This year I hope to pull it off, but will need to have a gravel road built to the valve.

Generally the faster the growth rate the shorter the life expectancy in pond fish. Some species can become morbidly obese on to much fish food (high % of diet). Examples are HSB and LMB. Don't know about BG however. If you are going to cut back on feeding (more than just a little) then harvest will be needed (assuming a balanced population now). A drawdown fall/winter may well help both the BG and LMB.

Thanks, Eric. I do have some feed trained LMB, and the HSB chow down spectacularly at the feeders, but neither are morbidly obese. Wish they were fatter, especially the LMB. Only fish that seem in danger are CNBG, though some of the larger RBT stocked last year also bordered on that condition. Of course, I'm sure RBT are all gone to fish heaven now.

120 lbs of feed/8 acres = 15 lbs per acre per week, or 2 lbs per acre per day. Doesn't seem excessive, and the fish scarf it down quickly. I have a good greenish bloom, 28 inches visibility. Probably my fertilization & feeding have helped the bushy pondweed, though. Maybe a drawdown will help there, along with the fish.

About how long would the bushy pondweed need to be kept out of water to kill it? I know some will remain, and that's fine. A week? Two weeks? Four? More?

Ponds with a good supply of natural forage will mediate high % pellet feeding issues in LMB. HSB are different as they can process carbs (somewhat) which can cause problems, but still supplemental feeding is a distinct positive for HSB as well. Drawdown should help with weeds and fish. I would not worry about put and take RT and feeding issues - put them in feed them and harvest. BG should be fine in your situation. If you reduce feeding substantially then watch BG population for condition and harvest as required to maintain condition.

See this for PW

https://aquaplant.tamu.edu/management-options/southern-naiad/

Don't know if it would work but I would check on using a contact herbicide as you draw down the pond to advance killing the problem plants. Spray only plants at surface as it goes down. Then when down remove plants manually. See the link re plant fragments. May want to check with Kelly , Bob or others on this approach. I do not hold water levels down. I lower the level and let it refill naturally. This assumes no constant water inflow which would cause issues. Usually stays down about 2 weeks and a month to refill. But your geography and rainfall are different than mine.

Thanks again, Eric. I looked at one the lake mat sites and was very interested, will check it out. Really prefer that to herbicides, if it works. More lasting, less dangerous, probably more effective.

I wondered about after using a contact killer and what the plant would do as it died. I was hoping it would go to bottom but now it sounds like mechanical removal is what is needed. And TMAU recommended fertilizing to reduce sunlight penetration but what about the fertilizer increasing the growth in plants? Sounds like a catch 22. Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. There is a downside to adding alum/lime treatment and it is that when the water clears the plants take over. Another catch 22!

I totally agree. It seems to me that if the plant growth is excessive ... the water is fertile enough. Some way to recycle the plants or disrupt them seem much better than chemical treatment or fertilization. Eric's comments about using a drawdown to disrupt them intrigues me. Things that eat plants also intrigue me because they move the nutrients into the water column (as waste) and should stimulate blooms. If what eats the plants is fish food too ... all the better. I have seen where crawfish without fish denude most all of the plants. I don't know if they can effectively control plants in the presence of fish but it seems if there are a lot of plants, they also have a lot of cover. As they eat the plants they become more exposed. But possible late spring/early summer introductions could help ... at so many pounds per acre. Not sure what it would take, may be better to offer refuge habitat in just the right amount to protect parental throughout the year.

anthropic, if you drawdown, and if there are substantial plants to recycle, some earthworms may proliferate and they will feed your fish upon flooding.

I have personally experienced crawfish denuding all the plants in my pond but that was back in the early days of the pond. At that time I had added 1200 baby crawfish to the pond and it wasn't long before I had large red swamp crays most everywhere in the pond. They ate $1300.00 worth of plants that I had planted in the ponds bottom. I would see holes dug all around the shoreline where Racoons had dug the crawfish up for eating. I still have some crawfish in the pond but not enough to make a dent in the BPW. And I did add around 200 of those baby crawfish again this past spring.

anthropicL

Call Optimal Feed and talk to Dustin. They may be interested in getting you to send some of the fat CNBG to them so they can take a look at how their internal organs are doing, i.e. how fatty they are.

Never thought of that, thanks for suggestion. Not sure if he'd be interested as the feed hasn't been purely Optimal, just mostly. Will check.