Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Stunted bass question

I was reading some info from a hatchery recently that claimed that once a bass stunts it essentially stops growing even if it is later provided with a steady food source. That seemed a bit hard for me to believe. Then I started noticing in my pond - which was stunted Badly when I bought it two years ago and have been removing bass like crazy and adding forage - that the stunted bass tend to have empty bellies and the non stunted bass often have food in their stomach. My BG population is strong enough now that no bass should have an empty stomach. So do bass lose the ability to grow ? Or the desire to eat once they are stunted ?

I have literature that suggests Bass will grow when they have suitable forage available even after stopping or slowing down.
I don't have that reference in front of me at the moment but it's listed in most publications siting ref. such as Taylor & Francis.
If Bass have an empty stomach or are in a lean condition, it may be that what they need is not present. I don't believe for an instant they lose the desire to feed, that's built-in.

Ryan,

I agree with Snipe. It can seem the way that you read it ... but the symptom is not the cause. Think of it like this. Most ponds will support (long term) no more than 70 lbs/acre of LMB. Divide that between 30 LMB and they could average 2.333 lbs. So what happens when that population recruits 100 offspring that are 8" by the following spring? Well now there is an extra 25 lbs of LMB that the pond cannot support. But which group of LMB will the pond favor with sufficient food? You got it. The recruits because they are small enough to benefit from BG YOY production before the YOY are of sufficient size to help the larger LMB. Because the larger LMB can no longer be maintained ... their condition reflects the lack of maintenance.

Changing the carrying capacity really doesn't change this dynamic. It's an ongoing problem that can only be helped by culling bass. The harder you work at this, the bigger your bass can be.

No body agrees with me here but maybe a handful ... but ... IMHO having too many adult BG will reduce the amount of forage available to your LMB. IMHO managing population structure is the only reliable means of improving the fitness of LMB and I think it is at its best when managing the population structure of both species.

No method other than harvest will work long term unless sufficient mortality occurs each year. In other words, you can take feeding, fertilization, forage ponds, etc to improve LMB condition, but eventually the condition declines. The fish will grow and reproduce into whatever new foods you supply ... which when you think about it ... is what happened in the first place. One the other hand, prudent cropping of LMB on an annual basis can and will work to improve LMB condition long term ... and indefinitely. Check out Bocomo's thread on his pond.

Stunted LMB can grow if food is made available. However they will not reach their potential as they have lost valuable growth time and undergone extreme stress.

Maintaining condition requires managing total mortality in each species (assuming you want a balanced well conditioned pond population). Total mortalities includes harvest and all natural mortalities. That is not an easy task as it requires knowing all things that may impact the pond (weather , spawn success , population analysis etc. and then harvesting to maintain balance (meet goals). Changing carrying capacity (feeding , fertilization etc) adds ability to produce but does not remedy out of balance mortalities over time. Proper harvest is a key element to maintain condition.

All of which leads to a question: What happens when you grow extra BG in a forage pond, then stock them in main BOW? In my case, most are less than 4 inches, loads of YOY. Like most pondmeisters, I have too many 8 to 14 inch LMB, even though I have good numbers of BG in all size groups. Harvested over 200 LMB last year, but only 33 this year due to various issues, including lockdown. Waiting for electro-harvest of LMB next week before transfer of forage pond fish so I don't waste BG on LMB that are then taken out.

Phil I agree with you, I have a large population of large BG and witnessed them destroying both LMB and BCP spawn this spring, so I think you are on track

Thank you all for the info and responses. I have been removing largemouths for two years now. This spring is my 3rd. It’s just interesting to me when I see bass and bluegills sunning themselves together In the spring - bluegills that are small enough to be food - and then I catch one of the bass and it’s stunted and stomach is empty. I’m just thinking “dude you were 8 “
Away from a good lunch - why didn’t you eat it?” Honestly there were so many bass in these ponds that it’s hard to understand how a wiggle bluegill fry made it through. Yet in two years the pond went from no bluegills to a pretty hefty population. And there isn’t A lot of cover either. I’m beginning to fix that but up till now the ponds have a few weeds and that’s about it.

LMB primarily eat BG between 10% and 25% their length. This is two standard deviations about a mean at ~ 18% their length (~95%). One standard deviation (~68%) variation about the mean ranges from ~ 16% to 20% their length. Prey of this size are both vulnerable and favorable for the energy gained. A bass will eat about 3 or more of them per day if they are available. At 3 per day, they constitute a little over 2% the weight of the LMB. If they are only eating a few a day, you will have to persevere with your observations in order to see them eat.


The numbers of BG in your pond are far less than the number of BG that have been consumed by LMB. Can you describe a little more about how you stocked the BG. Did you stock a few adults or did you stock fingerlings?

I stocked adults only. 24 of them two years ago. They spawned almost immediately and have continued to do so.

I am not surprised so few adults reproduced so prolifically in the face of so many LMB. One thing to keep in mind is that when you introduced the BG, they and their offspring had a lot of available space to grow into. Because the YOY grew fast, some were able to outgrow the small bass. In other words, they were able to attain lengths that the small bass were less inclined to capture. If the LMB had been heavily culled at the same time as the BG introduction, this would have slowed BG growth (higher numbers) and would have accelerated the growth of the remaining LMB. You are now at point where you should harvest BG in addition to the LMB. If the majority of the BG are too small to interest you, you should trap them and find some way to repurpose them (as TJ does). Going forward, you cannot expect the YOY production like you've seen these past two years. There is now substantial BG competition and the production of YOY will correlate with BG mortality.

Supplemental socking of adult BG (any/all sizes over 3 inches) is a method to aid in fixing a stunted LMB situation and should be used in conjunction with LMB harvest to achieve balance. It is one leg of a 3 legged stool the other 2 being harvest and management.

ThankYou for all the good info. What a great resource this is. I hope to get a better feel for the bluegill size and numbers once it warms up. It’s been so cold this spring my fish activity and sightings are way down. Need some sun and warmer weather

Eric, I'm finding that the harvest requirements are no joke. Made it worse this year by stocking large RBK without taking out a commensurate amount of LMB. Even pellet supplementation wasn't enough to correct this mistake.