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I'm planning on picking up some SMB and WE in the he next couple weeks and looking for input on whether to try to grow them some in cages. I had considered setting up a tank in my garage but seems like it would be pretty involved. There are LMB present in my pond so I realize these species likely will not do well long-term, but I'm just trying to get a few at least to survive to be a bonus catch. My question is, if the fish I'm able to source are only 4-7inches would it be best to try to raise them in cages until they're bigger or just stock them directly into the pond knowing that some will get eaten? Planning on getting about 20 of each knowing I'll lose some. Seems like fish in cages probably wouldn't grow a whole lot through the winter? I'm also thinking that since I have a lot of cover and forage in my pond maybe 1/3rd-1/2 of these smaller SMB and WE will survive if I just released them? I don't want to just throw expensive "food" into my pond if these fish are just too small to realistically have a chance at reaching adulthood.

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I am by far an expert on any of this. But heres my idea. Fence off a small section of your pond with netting (Seine net). It would only take a few t-post and the netting. Might be pretty cold setting it up this time of year thou. You would have to worry bout any kind of system setup this way. I'm sure someone with more knowledge will chime in but this is what i would do. And plan on doing this spring.


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If you "cage" small WE and SMB either in the garage or in the pond, what and how would you feed them? Will they be pellet trained? Can WE be pellet trained?

Last edited by Bill D.; 11/02/19 11:37 AM.

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I've tried to feed train WAE with zero success..if anyone would be able to do it, it'd be someone like Bill C., so I'm not going to say it can't be done. They feed supplemental in hatchery runs up to advance fry stage but around an inch to 1.5" they turn on each other regardless of the amount of food. Once they get passed about 4" you can sustain them on FHM or shiners of some sort.
SMB, yes, I believe that is fairly common to feed train them now.
I have been told by one member here that he feeds chopped fish to walleye that readily come in to that but I'm sure that takes some time to make that happen.

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If I was doing cages it would be PVC with mesh and floats so they wouldn't have to just be in the shallow water. I was planning on picking up a few pounds of shiners and feeding them to the WE and SMB. It's not that I'm trying to feed train these fish, I'm just trying to decide if they have a reasonable chance at survival or if I should put them in a cage and try to grow them for the next 3-6 months

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How many fish are you talking about?

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Snipe,

I believe from his original post that the plan is 20 WE and 20 SMB all 4 to 7 inch.


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Yes was planning on around 20 of each. My pond is very small (1/8 acre) ideally I'd say 5-8 adult WE would be appropriate for a pond my size but I know I'll lose some. The SMB I was going a little heavier on stocking just to try to give them some what of a chance given the presence of LMB.

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If you had to guess, what size are your LMB and how many?


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Forget the idea of growing those SMB and WE in a cage or even net pen - block net because you have very little experience doing this type of thing. From experience SMB are much easier to cage raise compared to WE. Plus you are doing this way too late in the fall so success of feed training in cold water and decreasing temps make it more difficult. Your other disadvantage is the new SMB-WE are on the small side which makes them easy bass food. I and a few other local guys tried WE in a cage with forage, and the WE attacked each other until only a few relatively healthy dominant ones remained.

Since you say you have "a lot of cover and forage",, I would just release the bought fish and hope for the best. Importantly in addition, I would add more FHM and some GSH to help take the predation pressure off the new stocked fish. Add as many minnows as your wallet and wife will allow. The more you add the higher the chances of survival of the new SMB-WE. Minnows that don't get quickly eaten will provide some needed easy food throughout winter for the new fish to keep them healthy over winter. WINTER is the hardest season for fish to survive.

As an added help/benefit, I would immediately get fishing and catch-remove as many LMB as you are able to catch. Use all sorts of baits including live bait esp minnows. See how good of an angler you are! The more all sizes of LMB removed the better this will significantly improve the chances of new fish survival. This definitely removes strong predation pressure on the new SMB-WE. Plus the more LMB you can remove allows more minnow forage to survive to benefit the SMB-WE. Your goal is to get them to SURVIVE!

LMB are cheap and very easy to replace. Plus you will definitely not catch all the LMB so the few remainders will produce you an overabundance of new LMB next year. Follow my suggestions closely and some of your new SMB-WE should provide you an occasional bonus fish providing the new fish you buy are good and healthy. WE are tricky and variable for fish farms to 'hold' before they are sold. Numerous factors before and after stocking affect survival. I bought 24 7"-11" WE last week that had been delivered to the farm 2 days prior and at least 9 died fairly quickly for me. Who knows how many dead were not seen.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 11/02/19 09:24 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
…. I would just release the bought fish and hope for the best. Importantly in addition, I would add more FHM and some GSH to help take the predation pressure off the new stocked fish. Add as many minnows as your wallet and wife will allow. The more you add the higher the chances of survival of the new SMB-WE. Minnows that don't get quickly eaten will provide some needed easy food throughout winter for the new fish to keep them healthy over winter. WINTER is the hardest season for fish to survive.

As an added help/benefit, I would immediately get fishing and catch-remove as many LMB as you are able to catch. Use all sorts of baits including live bait esp minnows. See how good of an angler you are! The more all sizes of LMB removed the better this will significantly improve the chances of new fish survival. This definitely removes strong predation pressure on the new SMB-WE. Plus the more LMB you can remove allows more minnow forage to survive to benefit the SMB-WE. Your goal is to get them to SURVIVE!

...


+1000...This is exactly what I do. My bride and I harvested all LMB 14 inches or larger that we could catch this summer in preparation for ladder stocking WE this fall. We will be stocking 10 lbs of GSH and 10 lbs of FHM into our 1/2 acre about a half hour before we stock the new WE. In my opinion, the bait fish will be a distraction prior to putting in the WE. I think the longer the WE have to acclimate to their new surroundings without getting eaten improves their chance of survival exponentially. The FHM are also within the mouth gap of the WE so they get an easy meal for a while. I have been using the "add baitfish first distraction" for the last 5 years with great success. I also think it is important to stock into the coldest water you can as it slows the LMB down while the cool water WE are still very active..

Last edited by Bill D.; 11/02/19 09:54 PM.

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Bill D,

I would say I maybe have around 4-5 LMB in the 2-3lb range. Most of the LMB I see swimming around are around 9-12 inches and have also seen a decent number of fingerling sized fish. As far as the numbers I don't have a clue. The few fish I catch seem to be relatively thick as opposed to the typical stunted bass fishery so I don't think they're way out of balance.

Last edited by Freg; 11/03/19 06:21 AM.
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Thanks Bill C, this is the answer I was looking for. Great idea on the extra baitfish, I was planning on picking up a few pounds but I'll go a little heavier.

Last edited by Freg; 11/03/19 06:29 AM.
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Originally Posted By: Snipe
I've tried to feed train WAE with zero success..if anyone would be able to do it, it'd be someone like Bill C., so I'm not going to say it can't be done. They feed supplemental in hatchery runs up to advance fry stage but around an inch to 1.5" they turn on each other regardless of the amount of food. Once they get passed about 4" you can sustain them on FHM or shiners of some sort.
SMB, yes, I believe that is fairly common to feed train them now.
I have been told by one member here that he feeds chopped fish to walleye that readily come in to that but I'm sure that takes some time to make that happen.



Snipe, have you tried feeding walleye hydrated feed? We had great luck with that in tanks last winter and it carried over into cages. The only issue we had was the water temp in cages got too warm and we began losing fish.


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That is pretty cool that you got them to eat dry food. How did you start them? Did you put them in the deep end of the pond. I did this years ago with Tilapia. I put a four by eight plastic cage on wheels and rolled it in and out of the pond as needed.

Last edited by john kelsey; 11/03/19 08:45 AM.

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