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copper sulfate
#38642 09/18/06 12:08 PM
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will copper sulfate kill the algae and plants and duck weed and waterlilies on my pond that is like quarter of acre what do you reccommond. I was told it is a good cheap way to start off

Re: copper sulfate
#38643 09/18/06 12:39 PM
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Welcome magic1234 to the PB forum.

Here is a link to Aquaplant. Each plant is different. CUSO4 (copper ) will work on some but not others. Go to the link and look up each plant then the management options.. Note that some copper products have potential water quality issues. There are a bunch of threads on Copper products here to read first before you try one.

http://aquaplant.tamu.edu/
















Re: copper sulfate
#38644 09/18/06 12:54 PM
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thanks i apprecite your help i want to get the pond cleaned up before i lose it

Re: copper sulfate
#38645 09/18/06 03:35 PM
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Re: copper sulfate
#38646 09/18/06 04:18 PM
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Shorty:

Take it from someone who has "been there, done that" you are a lot more likely to lose the pond (as you put it) by the wrong or too much chemical than you are by letting nature, and cold weather run it's course.

Do your research carefully and make as accurate an estimation of your lake size and what weed you are faced with as you can and you will be doing the right thing.

I believe one of the biggest mistakes a Pond Boss can make is to look for a cheap way of doing it.

Each of us has likely spent thousands, tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands of $$$ on their land, lake, etc. Saving a few bucks by using chemicals that are potentially harmful is not the best approach.


Bing


"I love living. I have some problems with my life, but living is the best thing they've come up with so far." � Neil Simon,
Re: copper sulfate
#38647 09/18/06 04:37 PM
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I hear ya Bing, been there and done that too, twice in the last 20 years to be exact. ;\)



Re: copper sulfate
#38648 09/18/06 04:51 PM
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Shorty:

Thanks for the reply. I meant to address my reply to Magic1234, not you. I just misread who originated the thread.

Something that I have observed many times on this site, but didn't want to single out Magic1234 about it since I have seen it so often, is how some pondsters really look for doing things cheap. All of us, I guess, are on a budget and all of us want to save $$$. However it seems like many times doing it cheap seems more important than doing it the best way. That is likely why I started using Copper Sulfate when other chemicals do it better.

I learned that lesson on chemicals and am now trying to use good judgment on what feeder to buy, etc. Some are 1/2 the price of others, but it looks some, like Sweeney, are so superior that it is worth it.

Bing


"I love living. I have some problems with my life, but living is the best thing they've come up with so far." � Neil Simon,
Re: copper sulfate
#38649 09/19/06 08:37 AM
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Bing,

I know a fellow who asked his county agent what he could do cheaply to treat the algae in his pond. The agent recommended the product used to kill tree roots in sewer lines....copper sulfate. He got a cheap solution to his algae control, but now has a pond that is contaminated for many many years in the future with copper.

Re: copper sulfate
#38650 09/19/06 08:52 AM
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i can tell based on the posting that copper sulfate is not the product to use. I have alot of algae that comes up in the late summer from the bttm as well as water lillys and plants on the side of the pond that flower with a purple flower there are also cattails on one side of pond. I would apprecate if you can reccommond what chemical to use in stead of copper sulfate

Re: copper sulfate
#38651 09/19/06 09:03 AM
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CUSO4 is a viable product in the proper situation and if used correctly. It may not be the best product and it probably is not the right one in your situation. But it depends on the plants and the situation. You have to id the plants and the control method. See this link to help.

http://aquaplant.tamu.edu/

This assumes you have fish and don't want to risk killing them or damaging the pond dirt and water. If that is not the situation you can drain the pond and renovate to get rid of the weeds.
















Re: copper sulfate
#38652 09/19/06 02:36 PM
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i appreciate all the help on the coper sufate and decided it it not the way to go. I will have to put some money aside and buy some of the expensive chemicals.

Re: copper sulfate
#38653 09/20/06 11:15 AM
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I recently tried to purchase copper sulfate for my pond in NY. Was told by Tractor Supply that they can not sell copper sulfate in the state of NY. What can we use to control filamentatious algae here?

Re: copper sulfate
#38654 09/20/06 11:38 AM
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Tuzz,

Have you tried Cutrine plus? There are probably other equally good products but Cutrine has worked very well for me in the past. No way I would ever use copper sulfate in my ponds, but Cutrine doesn't pose as much danger from the copper as straight copper sulfate...from the label:

"The ethanolamines in CUTRINE-PLUS prevent the precipitation of copper with carbonates and bicarbonates in the water. Waters treated with CUTRINE-PLUS may be used for swimming, fishing, drinking, livestock watering or irrigating turf, ornamental plants or crops immediately after treatment."

Re: copper sulfate
#38655 01/22/07 08:33 AM
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First, let me say that I'm no expert on this subject. I will try to accurately reflect some information I have observed regarding my ponds health over the past several years. A while back, I took a course entitled "ecology for engineers." It was taught by a couple of guys that were leaders in their field, and very knowledgeable about aquatic habitat.

I have had some serious problems with the plants described above and in particular filamentatious algae. One summer, I had a major fish kill as the algae died during some cool August days. I've used cutrine and copper sulfate. They work. Given a couple of weeks, these treatments will knock it out. With a couple of treatments a year, no problem. You have a nice looking pond.

Here's the rub. I raise fish. I have bass, BG, cats, and crappie. The fish and particularly the BG and bass were not growing like I would like. The BG were stunted, and the bass were also very small. The cats did ok because I fed pellets. The water seemed like it was always cloudy.

During coffee breaks I would chat with the instructors to get their take on my pond and its health. Their come back was immediate and unanimous. I don't have an algae problem. I have a nutrient management problem. Killing the algae only releases the nutrients back to the pond to be used again. And, if I didn't cut off the source, the nutrients would only continue to accumulate. Also, once the copper precipitates out, the problem will come back likely worse than before. So, will I have to treat forever?

Their 2nd observation. The copper based algaecides kills the algae, and other zooplankton, invertebrates, etc. which are part of the food chain for BG, fatheads, shiners, and other critters. Also, the cloudy water (which could be nutrient based), detracts from site feeders like LMB. This could be the cause of both small BG (3") and bass (12").

The solution is beginning to unfold (for me at least). I'm dealing with a half acre pond so it is probably much more practicable to do what I'm doing for my situation than for others. Here are the steps I've implemented so far. No fertilizer for the lawn around the pond. On other areas on the property, I use a slow release fertilizer (not the cheep stuff) with low or no phosphates. Aerate. This helps break down organics naturally, and provides O2 for the fish. If the alga builds up around the edge, mechanically harvest it. This gets rid of the algae as well as nutrients (a couple of hours two or three week ends a year in my case). The final thing I've done is to use a bacteria / enzyme additive. This has been very helpful in removing muck from the bottom, and I've really noticed the water clearing up. Visibility has gone from 6" to about 4 feet.

This past year is my third year without Cu treatments. The water is clearer. The BG are now about 8" on average, and I've caught some LMB in the 20" range. The larger cats are about 30". I think if cats can find feed, they are very tolerant of water quality. I hope sharing some of my thoughts is helpful. If I'm off base on some of my observations, the experts on the forum can help with more scientific explanations.

Re: copper sulfate
#38656 01/22/07 03:24 PM
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Bad Boy:

Great observations. I plan to do some research into enzyme additives. I have been a little turned off by the concept because about the only time I have been exposed to the subject is when someone pushes them as a wonder cure. Most of the time when I have seen it touted there is a web site or 800 number to call and order.

I am hopeing that this subject is on the program at the Pond Boss Forum in Dallas in March.

Bing


"I love living. I have some problems with my life, but living is the best thing they've come up with so far." � Neil Simon,
Re: copper sulfate
#38657 01/22/07 10:11 PM
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Bing, if it's not on the program, there will be a lot of Pro's to corral with specific questions.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Re: copper sulfate
#38658 01/23/07 01:42 PM
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That's right Bing please come by the moderator booth and ask DD1 all the questions you want. ;\) :p If that doesn't work then we can find someone "in the know" to corner with the questions.
















Re: copper sulfate
#38659 01/23/07 02:23 PM
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Or I can make something up. \:D


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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Re: copper sulfate
#38660 01/24/07 07:58 AM
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Bill Cody will be there. Nuff said.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Re: copper sulfate
#38661 01/24/07 09:18 PM
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Bing -Follow Bab Boy's lead and advice. He is on a path that leads in the right direction. Look at the progress he has made by reading his testimony.


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Re: copper sulfate
#38662 03/03/07 08:54 AM
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To add to this topic,
Up-here in Quebec, chemicals like Cu are banned. In fact about 95% of what the industry sells for pond management in the USA is unavailable in Canada... how do we get rid of algae?

Exactly like Bing said, we manage the nutrients instead. And it really works!

One note though, be careful of the term enzymes, bacteria will produce enzymes. Enzymes wont reproduce, they are a by-product of bacterial activity.
Another important note would be to ask for the freshest batch of bacteria and to ask for the count per unit (how many millions or billions per gram) One pound of bacteria with a 1 million cfu is not as effective as one with 1 billion cfu.

What is CFU? :In microbiology, colony-forming unit (CFU) is a measure of viable bacterial numbers. Unlike in direct microscopic counts where all cells, dead and living, are counted, CFU measures viable cells. By convenience the results are given as {CFU}/{mL}, colony-forming units per milliliter.

Also, if you do not aerate, try using bacteria mixes that are design for wastewater, they will still function with less oxygen.

Our government decided for us what we can sell; and you know it aint that bad, its actually more efficient in the long run...


Mario Paris,
Fish & Wildlife Management Technician, CEO of Canadianponds.ca Products
Re: copper sulfate
#38663 03/03/07 12:39 PM
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Excellent posts!

Does anybody know if the same bacterial approach would need a different angle if the water has salinity? It always seems to me that bacteria have such limited parameters that it would be difficult to know which would thrive without knowing some specific water chemistry.


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
Re: copper sulfate
#38664 03/03/07 01:33 PM
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Bruce

CHECK OUT THE WEB SITE www.nutritekinc.com

They have a product that works in the ocean called
Greenex. Give Mike T a call 877-478-4844. These guys are located on the west coast. He'll answer all your questions. I've used this product in my pond for the last 6 years with no problems.

Troll

Re: copper sulfate
#38665 03/05/07 04:52 PM
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Bruce,

In the liquid format, I know of one product that works in salt-water environment :

From BactaPur's website:
Bacta-Pur XLSW :To biodegrade soluble organic pollutants - BOD reduction as well as for sludge reduction in salt water (>5 ppt salinity).

These guys are manufacturer, beats me how you can manufacture bacteria!!! in fact they should be called bacteria farmers! They have a pretty cool bacteria brewing operation right here in Quebec and they ship all around the world... not today cause the bacteria would freeze \:\)


Mario Paris,
Fish & Wildlife Management Technician, CEO of Canadianponds.ca Products
Re: copper sulfate
#38666 03/19/07 03:47 AM
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As a new pond owner, I did a lot of research and everything came up pretty much - Do NOT use copper sulfate. When I do have an algae/plant problem etc., I too, will be looking for something other than it to control the problems. Keep up the great site Pond Boss--I just love my Pond Boss magazines--they and this site are a wealth of information that without I wouldn't know what the hec I'm doing with this Pond.




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