I have never understood the aversion to testing water quality? I enjoy sitting on the banks of my lake and during that time, I test the water. I am a firm believer in knowledge. I can't change mother nature but I can gain some insight. Do you phosphates and ammonia increase after a heavy rain? Do your total dissolved solids go through the roof? If you don't know the answers to the basic questions of an ecosystem you are trying to manage, you aren't a very good manager. For less than 100 bucks you can buy a pond test kit, a digital thermometer that will give you temps to 25' and a TDS meter. A DO meter is expensive but I use a 30 dollar test kit with 50 tests. I spend 50-100 dollars a year tracking my water, all while sitting in the serene environment of its shores. My fish kill is zero. Seems like a good deal.
The forum is comprised of thousands of long time pond owners/managers and dozens of pond management pros and fish biologists as well who manage vast private water and are aware that water chemistry influences a fishery - we wouldn't be successful otherwise. I'm uncertain where you sense an "aversion" to water chemistry tests from these posts - we embrace science on the forum and understanding the chemical characteristics of one's water is essential. What I see in this thread are posts trying to help walk Jason through the likely causes of the BG kill event - and in my case, I'm citing years of management experience on my own 7 ponds and dozens more I manage professionally. This includes managing [stocking/culling] millions of BG, whether I like it or not.
It appears you've been managing your fishery for a couple years - congrats and I hope things go well and it's great you found the forum. When you've been at it a wee bit longer you might face some similar challenges - although ag runoff clay ponds behave significantly differently that deep quarry ponds - far less volume of water means far less tolerances for errors. I learned early that legit challenges occur once a fishery carrying capacity is approached and ponds become increasingly eutrophic - that's when the real learning begins. While we should probably focus on Jason's fishery, I encourage you to think about interpreting the data you're collecting: how does increased phosphorous impact your fishery, specifically, considering it's a quarry pond and likely doesn't pose the same potential vegetation growth issues? Considering the volume of water you manage [87' max depth], what steps could you feasibly fiscally execute to impact the water chemistry in the event of an emergency [low DO levels, high phosphorous/dense planktonic algae blooms]? It's one thing to measure water chemistry, it's another to interpret the data and how it will impact water QUALITY and fishery performance. Thankful for our experts on the forum who can help us with that - they've taught us all quite a bit - still lots more to learn - that's why we subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine.
Embrace the honeymoon phase of fishery/pond management - I miss the easy breeze of those first few seasons when fish just grew - regardless of the frequency of testing my water chemistry.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
Who were the fish from ? How long had they been out of the hatchery (in truck)? Doubt it is your water but rather stressed fish. Glad they will replace - a good sign.
I doubt it also, Eric, but still looking forward to the test results.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
I apologize, Teehjaeh57. Considering the OP's latest die off, I am sure either he or the supplier will test the water. We can wait until then to discuss this further. How about a wager? If it is water quality, you buy me a 1 year subscription. If it is anything but water quality, I'll buy you a 1 year subscription.
I apologize, Teehjaeh57. Considering the OP's latest die off, I am sure either he or the supplier will test the water. We can wait until then to discuss this further. How about a wager? If it is water quality, you buy me a 1 year subscription. If it is anything but water quality, I'll buy you a 1 year subscription.
And the loser from that wager buys me a 1 year subscription! lol
JQ, I don't want to peel off topic here, but like TJ, I've been down this road a few times myself, I'm going into my 29th year of handling fish and public fisheries. I can count WAY more issues with improper fish handling than I've ever seen with water quality issues but without being there, seeing how the fish are being handled, we assume things are in order but maybe they aren't. Most of all, let's hope the OP gets things under control but I'm leaning hard in the direction of a handling issue-just seen it too many times.
Jason the bg in your photos have very large eyes for their body size-appear stunted to me, but I don’t know what size fish you stocked. I’d consider requesting a cash refund and contacting American Sportfish for bg stocking.
Last edited by teehjaeh57; 05/03/1910:27 PM.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
JQ, I don't want to peel off topic here, but like TJ, I've been down this road a few times myself, I'm going into my 29th year of handling fish and public fisheries. I can count WAY more issues with improper fish handling than I've ever seen with water quality issues but without being there, seeing how the fish are being handled, we assume things are in order but maybe they aren't. Most of all, let's hope the OP gets things under control but I'm leaning hard in the direction of a handling issue-just seen it too many times.
There’s just no substitute for real life experience, is there?
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
Jason the bg in your photos have very large eyes for their body size-appear stunted to me, but I don’t know what size fish you stocked. I’d consider requesting a cash refund and contacting American Sportfish for bg stocking.
They do look abnormal. They don't look like that on the live ones. Its just how they get as they rot. Its getting hot down here quick.
Got my water test kit in today. ph 7.5 ammonia .10 Nitrite 0 Phosphate 0
First, let me apologize for my perceived inexperience. I certainly do not mean to overstep any boundaries. I am just trying to help.
I am going to assume you used the API Freshwater Test Kit another member linked. That means your ammonia is 0.1ppm (mg/L). If my lake tested that, I would be alarmed. It is mitigated somewhat by your pH but interpreting ammonia readings is also temperature dependent. Can you measure the temperature?
Ammonia exists in two forms in the water, NH3(unionized ammonia) and NH4+(ionized ammonia). NH3 is toxic to fish at >0.03 mg/L (ppm). NH4 is relatively harmless. The ratio of concentration of each is pH and temperature dependent. The higher the pH and or temperature, the more of the NH3 will be present.
Now that you have a test kit, perhaps taking measurements at various points of the day may show a rising pH and temperature at a certain time of day, thus raising your NH3 to dangerous levels for short periods?
Jason the bg in your photos have very large eyes for their body size-appear stunted to me, but I don’t know what size fish you stocked. I’d consider requesting a cash refund and contacting American Sportfish for bg stocking.
Tj, I thought the same thing, stunted/older fish. Glad to see I was not the only one thinking that.
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Hatchery may be dumping runts/poor performing fish in the Spring...we see it a lot from hatcheries nationwide - buyers need to beware getting stuck with age 1 runts. Without knowledge of size or appearance at point of stocking we can't assume that's what happened here - but it's still something for us to keep an eye out for. That's what we are here for - helping pondmeisters to navigate the unknown waters and be successful. Again, I strongly recommend sourcing fish from American Sportfish - Bob Lusk recently merged with them and they have a hard earned reputation for raising healthy fish with excellent genetics. Shawn McNulty is one of US - if you know what I mean - I trust him and his staff 100%.
Got my water test kit in today. ph 7.5 ammonia .10 Nitrite 0 Phosphate 0
First, let me apologize for my perceived inexperience. I certainly do not mean to overstep any boundaries. I am just trying to help.
I am going to assume you used the API Freshwater Test Kit another member linked. That means your ammonia is 0.1ppm (mg/L). If my lake tested that, I would be alarmed. It is mitigated somewhat by your pH but interpreting ammonia readings is also temperature dependent. Can you measure the temperature?
Ammonia exists in two forms in the water, NH3(unionized ammonia) and NH4+(ionized ammonia). NH3 is toxic to fish at >0.03 mg/L (ppm). NH4 is relatively harmless. The ratio of concentration of each is pH and temperature dependent. The higher the pH and or temperature, the more of the NH3 will be present.
Now that you have a test kit, perhaps taking measurements at various points of the day may show a rising pH and temperature at a certain time of day, thus raising your NH3 to dangerous levels for short periods?
Yes I used the api test kit posted above. The last time I checked my temps, they were close to 75-76F 1ft below the surface in about 6ft of water in full sun. The test kit for ammonia had 2 color samples. One for 0.0 and one for .25. My color was in between so I just estimated it at .1 to write something in my records as a reference. I have no way to be exact. Thanks for everyones opinions. I really appreciate all the help. Please continue. I'm a sponge at this point. The hatchery is wanting to give me 200 replacement fish on Monday. They are saying they see no problems with this new batch and I should be fine. Should I ask for a refund instead? They are about 45 min away I think and will stop by my feed store which is less than 15 min away.
Hatchery may be dumping runts/poor performing fish in the Spring...we see it a lot from hatcheries nationwide - buyers need to beware getting stuck with age 1 runts. Without knowledge of size or appearance at point of stocking we can't assume that's what happened here - but it's still something for us to keep an eye out for. That's what we are here for - helping pondmeisters to navigate the unknown waters and be successful. Again, I strongly recommend sourcing fish from American Sportfish - Bob Lusk recently merged with them and they have a hard earned reputation for raising healthy fish with excellent genetics. Shawn McNulty is one of US - if you know what I mean - I trust him and his staff 100%.
Considering your water temperature is 75/76F, your pH is 7.5 and your measured ammonia is 0.1, your NH3 (unionized toxic ammonia), by my calculations would be about 0.002 mg/l.
Considering your test kits ability (tolerance), even a high end reading of, 78/7.8/0.25 would only calculate to a 0.009 NH3 concentration. Both below levels toxic to most fish (0.05 mg/l). However, this is only a snapshot in time.
Unfortunately you cannot measure Dissolved Oxygen, which would be another wildcard in your water quality. Are your fish lethargic? Laying on the pond bottom with clamped fins, or gasping at the water surface?
You can take a fresh dead fish and look for gill color and blood color. Red/Lavender gills may indicate high NH3 and brown blood would indicate high nitrates. Also, fraying of the fins, which I see in your last photo is a sign of high ammonia.
In my older post you may remember that I lost almost all of my adult bg around the first of the year. I bought 200 from american sportfish a few months ago to raise in a cage. I lost about 30 of them and most seemed to have a fungus. One of the larger ones had a fungus on his back when I picked them up. His dorsal fin was basically missing. I called ASF and they said it happens in cooler weather and rom being in the cage. I have raised them in a cage before without any issues. I think they were sick from the hatchery, but that is ok, things happen. The remaining ones are still in the cage and feeding and growing well.
The part about soil floc affecting them, I treated my pond with it and had huge success with stopping the leak. Thanks again tj. I did see some very small bg affected by it, but not enough to worry about. losing a few small bg was well worth it to seal the leak.
My pond hasn't bounced back from the loss of my adult bg. fish feeding is sluggish at the best. I see some adults, but not any monsters like I lost. Feeding is getting better daily and I see some on the bed. I will recover!!!
Considering your water temperature is 75/76F, your pH is 7.5 and your measured ammonia is 0.1, your NH3 (unionized toxic ammonia), by my calculations would be about 0.002 mg/l.
Considering your test kits ability (tolerance), even a high end reading of, 78/7.8/0.25 would only calculate to a 0.009 NH3 concentration. Both below levels toxic to most fish (0.05 mg/l). However, this is only a snapshot in time.
Unfortunately you cannot measure Dissolved Oxygen, which would be another wildcard in your water quality. Are your fish lethargic? Laying on the pond bottom with clamped fins, or gasping at the water surface?
You can take a fresh dead fish and look for gill color and blood color. Red/Lavender gills may indicate high NH3 and brown blood would indicate high nitrates. Also, fraying of the fins, which I see in your last photo is a sign of high ammonia.
I have an aerator running for the last couple days. Since I started running it, I'm loosing a few less fish a day. Don't know if that is the reason or I just have fewer sick fish left. My water is muddy. Can only see about 10in deep. The pond is new and I just built a house next to it with no lawn yet. Still doing dirt work to fix the yard. I just spread hay where most of my run off goes into the pond. I do have grass starting to come up around the pond. 2 sides of the pond has thick clover food plots around it and the other is the dam. It's just the one side facing my yard that contributes to the mud. So with that said, I can't see my fish unless one comes to the surface. I see the FHM schools all the time. I put a jar of pond water in a dark place yesterday. My pond has always been muddy. Took a long time (8 months) to fill especially with the leak. Lots of up and down in water level until I fixed the leak in March. Then added another dose of soil floc 3 days before I stocked it April 24.
I remember soaking my fish bags thinking there wasn't enough water in the bag. Fish were fighting to get under water. Some was on their side on top of the other fish fighting to get down. The more I think about it the more I think they had pretty stressful circumstances. Or maybe I'm just wishful thinking because stressed fish is an easier fix than having bad pond water as long as I'm getting free replacement fish.
Fellow Snyper, If you stuck a jar in the dark yesterday, you should be able to see some sediment on the bottom today if it's a soil issue-may not be much but you should be able to see some particulates in the bottom. Don't shake it, just carefully look at bottom of jar.
Some of the farmers around here use hay bales to clear muddy water. They say, if you add a tablespoon of vinegar to your water sample and it clears up, the hay bales will work. Maybe someone else has experience with this? I have just heard this at the honky tonk on a rainy day.
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