Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Feed training 3-4" LMB

Looking through the archives I can't seem to find much information on how to feed train LMB. In 5 weeks I'm getting about 300 of them in the 3-4" range and plan to cage them and force them to pellet train. I was hoping to use this thread to journal that activity and use it as a learning experience for all of us. In the meantime, I was hoping a few with experience would chime in with advice on the simplest way to feed train 300 LMB so I can incorporate some of their techniques. So for anyone with experience doing such, please feel free to respond with your experience and any do's and don'ts you may have.

You can't find some of last years LMB that are pellet trained??. It could save you some frustration and loss of some fingerlings. Let's see what help members can provide. In early spring getting 3"-4" LMB you do realize these fish have been grown crowded and if they had abundant food grown in your region they could have been 5"-6" to about 10% 7.5"-8".

Thanks for the info Bill. Yeah I assume these are fish that are a bit stunted at this point. But my goals for these fish aren’t to turn them into trophies. My objective is 1) to provide a carp predator that is one gape size larger than HSB to consume any carp that may escape the HSB in my pond and 2) to learn from the feed training experience of LMB. I like to experiment with different species. Not sure I learn a lot but I have fun.

These fish will most likely not thrive on pellets or carp alone. I’ll give them just enough pellets for them to survive yet keep them hungry for carp. Or that’s my goal. I’d grow them out this summer from 3-4” and then stock this fall. So for the price I’m getting them they serve my purpose. Bruce has given me a method for training them. I just wanted to pick other peoples brains on the subject.

One concern I do have is at this age they may be hard to train.

NEDOC, not to get off topic (right??!!), but how bad is the carp infestation?

They are much easier to feed train in the 2-3" range, but I have feed trained 3-4" (and some larger) LMB in indoor RAS systems. In a large cage, I doubt they feed train since they will have zooplankton and inverts to eat and they won't be very competitive with each other. Pack them nice and tight and they will feed train though. Make sure you are feeding them something with around 48/18 protein/fat. Slow sinking feeds are good to get them started on feed then transition to floating pellets.

It's bad enough that the proper thing to do would be to kill it off. But I don't own the entire pond, and I don't think my uncle (the other partial owner) would be up for killing it off. There will most likely come a time when I do that. But its probably 10 years or so away. In the meantime I'm attempting to have fun turning lemons into lemonade.

The fact that it's supports a self sustaining population of GSF, crappie and even a few LMB gives me hope that stocking feed trained fish can help me turn the tide a bit against the carp. That is, I will stock feed trained fish and feed them during times that I don't feel young carp are as vulnerable.

Thanks Acoursey

Why not purchase feed trained fish? There are lots of 4" feed trained fish available in the midwest. Some have 6-8" fish available now, and there will be quite a few available in June/July.

I may do that at some point. But to be honest I look forward to the learning experience of trying to train these to pellet feed.

NEDOC, how about buying half (or any other percentage) of feed trained bass, and the remainder non feed trained? The trained fish may then help the non trained fingerlings figure it out and get with the program?
You'd have a bit of insurance protecting the fish from starvation.
Just a thought.

I like that idea 4CP. I may try that.

NEDOC, just curious if you've tried Tiger Muskie stocking as a carp-control method.

Also, if you could somehow mix some 3-4" smallies in with the LMB, the LMB might get feed trained sooner. I've always heard that smallies get on feed much easier, and LMB see that and get on the chow line.

I stocked 11 TM last fall. I had feed trained them to eat tilapia. Not sure I can pull off the SMB trick this year but like the way you’re thinking.

PS I have access to another 30 TM this year. So they may enter the picture as well.

I have feed trained 7"-8" LMB in a cage first using pieces of night crawler, then mixing with soften pellets. Your fish pieces method could also work well or in combination with worms. Bass were caught using worms so they quickly knew worms were good food. If you use some trainer LMB with the non-trained LMB, I would not put very many teacher LMB into the cage. Too many pellet eaters among non-eaters may 'hog' the food away from the hesitant and shyest LMB.

Bill I was thinking that’d be a good route of progression. Or at least a good starting point.

Sunil, not to get off subject too much, but my ‘Ladder of Carp Destruction’ involves 1) Bluegill to attack carp eggs and larval stage. I linked a report somewhere on here stating that carp reproduction was 11 times less in test ponds with bluegill present 2) Hybrid Bluegill. Same as above but gape should allow them to progress to carp that are further along in development. 3). Hybrid Striped Bass - same concept accept even larger gape. 4) Largemouth Bass - larger gape yet. 5) Tiger Muskie. All of the above would be feed trained except the TM. This allows me to attack carp Young at all possible stages of life except for the largest in size. Fortunately I have two grow out ponds so I can feed train and get the fish to a size where they’ll be less vulnerable to predation. Essentially what I’m attempting to do is not allow any reproduction of fish to survive. The bottom of my food chain will be carp and bg fry and pellets. And only pellets at times that fry aren’t as abundant.

IMO since common carp are primarily sediment oriented feeders the LMB would be a much better predator of small carp compared to HSB who primarily inhabit open water. LMB ofter cruse near the bottom is search of food. My experience is carp do not hang out much up off the bottom. It is my understanding that common carp and koi do not have a stomach, but a long intestine. This means they cannot binge feed to stock up on food and then "rest". Thus this type of fish usually feeds frequently (on the bottom) to keep food moving through the digestive tract.

NEDOC, thanks for the further details. It sounds like you've got a plan for all the carp except the advance juveniles and the adults.

Several years ago, I had my pond in Somerset electro-shocked using Dave Beasely of SOLitude. This pond had been not been managed for almost 10 years, and it had become infested with carp and even Northern Pike.

My point is, the electro shock pulled up so many adult carp that I was shocked (no pun intended). I didn't even know that I had that kind of carp infestation going on.

In hindsight, if I was trying to eradicate carp, I would have spent a few more hours with the shock boat and pulled out way more carp.

In 4 hours time & effort, we could have removed a heck of a lot adult carp.

Ya'll cruel people. Carp is good fishing and good eating. Bring me your carp!

Sunil, I like the way you think. I’ve considered electroshocking and may do it someday.