Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations New Pond Owner

I have just purchased a property with 2 ponds in southern Illinois. I have a few questions:

About the ponds: The larger pond is about an acre to an acre and a quarter. It is 13-15 feet deep in the deepest point and has the houses geothermal coils in it. The smaller pond is probably just under an acre with a small island in the middle. I am not sure how deep it is. Neither pond has been fished very much at all, but have been told the bigger pond is stocked with LMB, BG and CC. No one knows what is it the smaller pond, but I suspect the same.

Questions:
1.) I really would like to get a population of red-ear established as soon as possible. Is it foolish to go ahead about put 100 or so red ear in each pond this Spring even though I really don't have a good feel for the population of other fish already in there?

2.) What is the best way to evaluate the fish populations in each lake? A friend mentioned having a marine biologist come out and shock the fish, but I don't really know a marine biologist.

3.) Long-term, I would like to expand the number of species. We will probably aerate the pond and set up a fish feeder, at least in the bigger bond. I read a few posts on stocking HSB in a small pond. I also would love adding some yellow perch, but I don't know if they would survive and if they did, I am not sure it would be a good idea. Any suggestions on species to add? I would be up for regularly stocking species that may not breed. We would like some that are good fighters and some that are good eating.

I appreciate any suggestions or advice.

I'll just say welcome to the forum but leave the recommendations to those more knowledgeable and closer to your latitude.

Having two ponds instead of just one opens up a lot of possibilities.

Thanks! I have to say I am really excited about the possibilities. There is a lot of great information on this forum...it's a little overwhelming.

Under "My Stuff" menu is a heading "Watch List". The watch list is an easy way to keep track of your own threads you start plus any other particular ones you are interested in.

At times when the forum gets really busy it can become exceedingly hard to find an old thread you are interested in otherwise.

Welcome to the forum. You have come to the right place to get answers for the type of questions you have asked. In short order an expert will chime in to help you get some answers for your questions. Lots of people are in your situation; recent purchase of a property with a pond and not sure what direction to go. To assess what is in the pond, you have two options. One is the electroshock survey you mentioned. The Pond Boss magazine is a great source to find services such as these in your area, not to mention great articles and information. A subscription is a highly recommended investment. Otherwise, fishing both ponds with a variety of baits and lures is another alternative to see what is currently present. Use artificial and live bait and also run the gamut on hook size too. Write down the length and weight of each fish caught. Most Midwest ponds that have not been actively managed and that are stocked with bass and bluegill will end up with tons of stunted bass in the 12” range and large bluegills. In this scenario it will be difficult to stock any new species that is less than 6”. A general rule of thumb is that a bass will eat anything that is 40% of its own length. So probably the only way to get RES established will be to source some that are 5-6” or to catch them locally and stock them yourself. I will tell you that I stocked 3-5” RES in my pond when my bass were 8” and i had virtually no survival that I can see 5 years later. The perch are kind of the same story but will be even more attractive to the bass because they are more fusiform than the sunfish and therefore make easier prey. You will have to wait for someone else to comment on HSB, I have no experience with them. Again, welcome to the forum!

Welcome aboard! A bit of a greenhorn here myself but I can say to start with you'll need to see what exists in those ponds currently and the hard part of this will be patience.. It isn't going to happen over night so keep an open mind.
To start with there are 2 ways to check into whats in there now, Electrofishing, which is a good way to get a sample but certain times of the year the water is a better carrier of current than other times and certain species are not always accessible with this method.
Certain net types will allow samples of most species but I think in both cases, you'll need to contact your local Fishngame or a private firm that can handle this for you, others from your area can better suggest the "who" part.
Did I already say be patient??? :-))
As suggested above, until you get the right contacts, you can fish it to check it out but I think some help from a professional source will get you the best answers.

Hi and welcome!

My one recommendation is that you call Nate Herman at Herman Bros mgmt!!

https://www.hbpondmanagement.com

Absolutely top of the game and in your area.

Adge, if you want a fish for fighting & food that will not overrun your BOW, the HSB is worth considering. I've put them in this spring and have had a blast watching them hit fish pellets and our lures! If HSB jumped, nobody would care about LMB.

That's for sure! They're viscous fighters and explosive takes on topwaters.

The watchlist is a a great idea. Thanks!

thanks. I'll probably give him a call early next year. They are about 2 hours away and I cringe to think how much it would cost to do an electofish study on the small pond.

I am really high on HSB. It sounds like a few people here have been successful with them on a small body of water like mine, so I think I will give them a try.

Your local Fish n game can do it as well, shouldn't be any charge.. but as I said earlier, there are times and species that this isn't appropriate for.

Even if you don’t want or need a survey he can help you with stocking, too. I second the HSB stocking. Those fish are a blast.

Good advice so far, especially by DrWizz; reread his enlightening post located above. An important part for an economical good fish evaluation is "" fishing both ponds with a variety of baits and lures is another alternative to see what is currently present. Use artificial and live bait and also run the gamut on hook size too. Write down the length and weight of each fish caught. Most Midwest ponds that have not been actively managed and thay are stocked with bass and bluegill will end up with tons of stunted bass in the 12” range and large bluegills. In this scenario it will be difficult to stock any new species that is less than 6”. IMPORTANT - "stock new ones not less than 6" or you are just adding expensive predator foods. LM bass can eat big meals.

It is very important to get good results are several of the items: 1. "variety of baits and lures and variety of hook sizes". 2. "write down the length and weight of each fish caught". I advise record or include each type or specie caught with length. For a general or preliminary survey recording weights of the fish are not as important as getting lengths.

I regularly survey fish in a pond using the very simple angling method that involves just a small No.8 aberdeen hook baited with a 0.5" to 1.5" piece of night crawlwer (worm) fished under a thin elongated bobber. Set the bobber so the hook fishes depths of 2ft to 6ft deep. Deeper fishing can also be performed. Fish and record individuals until you get around 50 to 100 fish caught. The more you catch the better idea you will get for a good size structure and distrinbution of fishes present,

Move the bait parallel to shore so the hook is around 6" to 18" above the bottom. This small hook catches all sizes of fish 4"+. Thin fish line of 4-6 lb helps catch more fish in clear water. I caught some of my largest ever fish on a #8 hook (9 lb walleye) fished deep. It can regularly catch all types of forage fish to large bass on smal hooks. I've even caught large grass carp with this method. Small # 14 to # 12 hooks will catch minnows. and fingerlings. One key angler secret to this method is to sit on the ground when fishing near shore especially if the water is clear. When you are on shore a fish sees you before you see them due to angle defraction of light in water. Many larger fish are people shy due to negative experiences. Shore sitting provides a low profile where fish will come close to shore searching for food and readily encounter the shallow bait, Again write down length of every fish caught.

If someone comes in and does electrofishing they will likely sample several hundred fish so the more you catch by angling the closer your results will match those of a electrofishing survey.

By examining all the fish catch data one can see a good representation of the size distribution of common fish species in your pond. Type of angling can bias the data - see below. The most abundant specie and size caught will be the most common fish in the pond. This method does take some time. For some, time is money so the method you choose is dependent on your lifestyle and dedication to the project. Angling until you catch a few hundred fish takes a fair amount of time whereas electroshocking is a relatively quick sampling not involving your time.

NOTES: Both sampling methods have limitations.
Electroshocking generally does not sample fish in deeper waters such as 7ft+ft. Many fish will avoid the sampling boat noise and movement especially those closest to shore unless entrapped in shallow water by the pulsing electro-current. Electroshocking during daylight tends to be less efficient than low light or nighttime shocking because more fish are close to shore at night where and when electroshocking is most effective. Cost of an electrofishing survey produces quality results but it is expensive due to labor and equipment involved. Almost all electroshocking surveys include a professional written report about the sampled fish community

Angling and measuring fish takes time depending on density of fish. Time is money for most people. Using different types of live baits including small lures requires added time collecting baits. Baits depending on the type can be selective to certain fish species and then bias the catch results so using variety of baits lessens the bias. I like using the common earth worm because most all fish will eat the earth worm because it represents the natural occurring the pond inhabitant called oligochate worm that most all fish grow up eating. If results are not documented the time spent gatheing catch data greatly decreases the value of the method. It is usually helpful to the evaluation if the data includes the total time fished. This can provide information about CPUE (catch per unit effort).

Many pond owners are not astute enough to correctly evaluate the catch results so an additional or outside opinion (evaluation) is often needed to correctly analyze the results. Experienced members here can do that to help you if you post your results. Also PB members can help with fish identification when you catch fish that you do not recognize or provide verification of your opinion. Get a close clear picture of the fish and post it on your post query. I suggest you always return to this specific tread to keep all your pond data in one location.

Bill you are always a wealth of knowledge and practical advice. Thank you!

You mentioned something that always puzzled me. I mostly fished with worms my entire life. I knew that almost anything would bite on a worm. But why? I didn't think earthworms lived underwater, only in the earth on land, so why did all fish recognize them. Your post mentioned 'oligochate worm' and that sent me to the web. Wow, what a variety in freshwater worms!

I found this old publication that has a great key for identification. All the subcategories make my head spin! But it looks like Dr. Wetzel was one of the students who helped with prepare this document?

Oligochate worm taxonomy and Dr. Wetzel?

Wow!

Thanks Bill! This is extremely helpful. I have 8 kids who love fishing so I think we might go the angling method first and get some idea of what's in each pond...now getting them to write down what they catch maybe more challenging. DrWizz probably saved me a little money in stocking before I knew what was in there. I really want to get a RE population started soon for snail/grub control, but I don't want to just feed some stunted bass. I am not sure the previous owner knew the difference between a RE and a BG, so there may be some in there. He didn't fish although his grand-kids did occasionally as did several Heron and other birds. He did hand feed what he claimed were monster catfish.

Again, thanks for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate your advice!

Encourage the kids to work together as a team. They can work in pairs or all take turns as anglers and non-anglers can be book keepers. Stress to them the importance of each worker task. If it were me I would reward the whole team with bounty money shared equally for each fish caught.

If you plan to stock RES then I would remove every resident sunfish caught because these returned / released fish will compete heavily with any new fish stocked and reduce the chances of any new fish surviving. Also remove the LMbass especially if small bass are composing most of the bass caught. For supplimental stocking of new fish into an existing pond at carrying capacity one needs to "make room" for new added fish so they can find ample adequate food for survival. Also if all fish caught are kept you can verify the catch records.