Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Energymble, Kendal, BoomerTC35D, cjschuhmann, Teroni
18,532 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics41,017
Posts558,548
Members18,532
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 28,606
ewest 21,513
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 15,160
Who's Online Now
4 members (H20fwler, 4CornersPuddle, Goldie1!, Rick O), 632 guests, and 171 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#37879 08/13/07 10:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 342
C
Lunker
OP Offline
Lunker
C
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 342
After 8 months of muddy water on our new pond I decided I have had enough. I have tried hay with no change or clarity. I spoke with Dr. Billy Higginbotham last week from Texas A&M who is a pond specialist and he mentioned to me that they used to reccommend hay but don't any more. I know that many on this forum have used it successfully. I put the hay in about 4 weeks ago. My concerns grew this past weekend when my kids went for a swim in the deepest part of the pond. As they were swimming I noticed greyish water coming up from the depths and it smelled awful. They were not touching bottom - it seems that the water from about a foot below the surface had that strong odor and grey color. Dr. Higginbotham reccomended that in East Texas the pond likely needed lime as the starting point.
I had the water tested at the county extension office in Quitman, Texas on Monday and they suggested that I add 3 tons of lime to my 1.5 acre pond with an average depth of 5 feet. Pott's feed store in Quitman is charging me $50 per ton and is delivering it and applying it to the pond for that price. Seems very reasonable to me. They have a large truck that can sling it 20-25 feet into the water. The extension office also suggested running over the dam a couple times slinging lime across the clay to further help the grass. I'll test again in 2 or 3 weeks and report back on the progress. Both the county agent and Pott's feed store felt pretty confident that the lime alone will make a big difference, as they have made this suggestion to many in our area. The county agent suggests that gypsum may be needed if I want it really clear. I would welcome any additional input or advice.


"Our Life is frittered away by detail. Simplify, Simplify" -Henry David Thoreau -
#37880 08/14/07 07:39 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 14,000
Likes: 287
Moderator
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Lunker
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 14,000
Likes: 287
Are we talking Aglime (pelletized)? Or hydrated lime (pulverized)? There's a huge difference in effectivity; it's hard to use too much aglime, and easy to use too much hydrated lime.

I suspect 3 tons for 1.5 ares is an aglime recommendation.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
[Linked Image from i.pinimg.com]
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 342
C
Lunker
OP Offline
Lunker
C
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 342
Yes it is Aglime. I am anxious to see if it will make much of a difference.


"Our Life is frittered away by detail. Simplify, Simplify" -Henry David Thoreau -
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,513
Likes: 271
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,513
Likes: 271
Post reports of what happens and what you see 1 week , 1 mth and 3 mths after the application.
















ewest #95394 08/26/07 09:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 342
C
Lunker
OP Offline
Lunker
C
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 342
I checked the pond today - 7 days after application. Prior to the addition of the lime the water clarity was about 1 inch. I was pleased to see it increase to 7 inches today. This is the clearest that it has been. I also noticed fish feeding on the surface of the water. I threw a couple crickets in the water and they disappeared after a few kicks. While I have seen tons of gambusia on the surface I have not seen any signs of the CNB or FHM since they were put in, so I was happy to see a bit of activity. How long should I wait to test again and consider adding alum or gypsum?


"Our Life is frittered away by detail. Simplify, Simplify" -Henry David Thoreau -
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,513
Likes: 271
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,513
Likes: 271
I would watch it for at least a mth. before I did anything else.
















ewest #95726 08/30/07 04:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 235
T
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
T
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 235
I think you should consider an aeration system too. That smelling fould water coming up from teh bottom indicates Anaerobic bacteria at work. That is a bad sign for fish. This would indicate a low dissolved oxygen.

You will need to run it a little at a time if you have fish in the pond already until you clean things up by getting the water circulated. I would do an hour a day for the first week or 2. The smell will be pretty foul down wind. As the smell starts to dissipate that will mean your water is getting healthy and you can run it longer.

We run our aeration system 24/7 from ice melt until first week in November. We have no slimey water or smelly water any more.

Tuzz #96054 09/03/07 09:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 342
C
Lunker
OP Offline
Lunker
C
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 342
It has now been 17 days since the lime application. The water is only slightly clearer than after 7 days. We did get about a third of an inch of rain this week, so that could have muddied it some.

Tuzz, our pond is far from an electrical source, so not sure how I can aerate it. Solar? I am beginning to get a much better common bermuda grass covering around the dam. I believe that is helping somewhat as well. I can also begin to see the hay on the bottom of the edges that I put in there weeks ago. Maybe it is all starting to come together?!


"Our Life is frittered away by detail. Simplify, Simplify" -Henry David Thoreau -
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 342
C
Lunker
OP Offline
Lunker
C
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 342
The lime seems to have made a real positive difference on my pond. I have about 10 inches of visibility, and the water seems much healthier. I see a lot more fish on the surface and finally from a distance it looks like something other than a mud pit! I even saw 4 teal on the water today - a great thrill!

I am testing the water again next weekend and will see if it needs any additional lime and then will have to resort to 40 lb bags of pelletized gypsum to try and clear it further as I have been unable to locate bulk gypsum.


"Our Life is frittered away by detail. Simplify, Simplify" -Henry David Thoreau -
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,513
Likes: 271
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,513
Likes: 271
Captain1 glad the lime is helping. As the water cools and the plankton becomes less active your water should clear more. If it does not get clear over the cold mths then you may need to go to gyp or alum. Here is an SARC fact sheet on muddy water.

http://srac.tamu.edu/tmppdfs/144249-460f...466a3e233221435

Last edited by ewest; 09/16/07 08:07 AM.















ewest #97729 09/23/07 12:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 342
C
Lunker
OP Offline
Lunker
C
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 342
In one word..."Wow"! What a difference the past week has made on the clarity of the pond. 4 weeks ago we added the lime and when I arrived on Friday the water was clear to about 12 inches. I had just returned from Henderson, Texas where I purchased twenty five 50 lb bags of gypsum from Ken at BoatCycle. (They also had alum, both products at a fair price) That I planned on adding this weekend.

I added 800 pounds of gypsum to the pond on Friday afternoon. After reading the forum string on "sinking the boat with gypsum" I limited my row boat applications to no more than 5 bags at a time! Here is how I applied it to the pond since I did not have a boat motor or other means to evenly spread the gypsum: I dumped 2 bags of gypsum into a large cow molasses tub that I had centered in the rowboat and had a quart sized scoop. It was a slightly breezy day so I started at one end of the pond and slung a quart of gypsum about every 3 feet on both sides of the boat. After about 15 feet I would row backwards into the area where I spread the gypsum further dispersing it. I repeated this over a 2 hour period of time effectively evenly dispersing it. This was tough work - but I know many of you would agree that working on a boat in a new pond is about as fun as it gets!

By Saturday morning the pond had cleared to 14 inches. I am optimistic that next weekend will be even better. So here is a chronological order of what I did in total to the pond over the past 2 months:

7/21/07 I lined the edges of the pond with old hay. It was half in and half of the water. This helped slow erosion and sediment from our sandy soil and created a small bank. I added another 1,000 pounds of hay to the surface. The water was zero visibility.

8/19/07 - 1 inch visibility. Added 3 tons of ag lime to the pond today.

9/3/07 - 2 inches of visibility
9/15/07 - 10 inches visibility! Some of the hay is now floating on the side of the pond with grteen algae growing off it.
9/21/07 - 12 inches visibility and added 800 lbsof gypsum.
9/22/07 - 14 inches visibility

I wish I would have added the lime months ago - however our local companies had been unable to get it in bulk previously. The reccomendations from this forum have really made a difference!


"Our Life is frittered away by detail. Simplify, Simplify" -Henry David Thoreau -
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,513
Likes: 271
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,513
Likes: 271
Good Job Cap1. \:\)
















Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,365
B
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
B
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,365
Hey Captain,

I bet you're happy with your pond clearing.

Just FYI in case you decide to try alum, it doesn't need to be laboriously dispersed. You can dump a 50 Lb. bag in 1 pile in shallow water, and it completely diffuses in 30-45 minutes. I haven't experimented large scale with gypsum yet. I think it would also dissolve and diffuse, but at a slower rate than alum. I suppose it needs at least some spreading. Lime is another matter entirely. It needs to be well dispersed, or simply spread on the banks.

When your pond is at full pool and beginning to clear, as the water evaporates, it will become crystal clear as the minerals become more concentrated.

Looks like you are almost there. Good luck!

bobad #98429 09/30/07 07:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 342
C
Lunker
OP Offline
Lunker
C
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 342
The pond cleared further this week - out in the middle of the lake in the bright sunshine in my kayak I could see down to about 19 inches. The water has taken on a green/grey tint and looks like it has been there for years. I'm still surprised and delighted at this amazing transformation. I saw several 6-7 inch bluegill near the surface chasing bugs about 10 feet offshore. These are the first bluegill that have been visibile since I stocked it in the spring.

A big part of having a pond is the joy of looking across it and enjoying the aesthetics - I feel like I finally can begin to enjoy it.


"Our Life is frittered away by detail. Simplify, Simplify" -Henry David Thoreau -
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 165
B
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
B
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 165
Hi Captain:

I'm glad your water is improving. I've been reading about your problem and what you have been doing to resolve the muddy water. Is the Potts Feed store in Quitman owned by Henry Potts that owns the one in Emory? I didn't know they had a place in Quitman.

Before you mentioned that you had to go to Henderson to get gypsum. Potts couldn't order it, or was there not a place closer?

I really don't have muddy water but it does have a stain. Actually before I fertilize it is too clear. But when I built my pond they had hit the water table and I remember the nice clear green before it filled up to the dam. I know that I need to add lime and am going to get the water tested this next weekend. I was just wondering if I added gypsum if I could improve the look of the water and perhaps even get by with fertiliziing a bit more. Do you have the prices on what the gypsum would cost? I doubt I would go with the general recommended rate per acre since my water isn't too bad and I like to add things gradually, including fertilizer, it is just to hard to estimate the volume acre. And it changes. My water level is dropping some each week and the water is getting darker green because the nutrients and or plankton are remaining in the reduced water volume. And there is a paradox. Even though the water looks darker I can see further down than I could a few weeks ago. Go figure.

I'm glad you are enjoying your pond. I have my own problems with the size and quality of fish so I really don't fish that much but I swim and enjoy just looking at the water and the nature around it. I hope in a year or two I will have some fish I enjoy catching.

Good luck and hope to hear from you,

Bill


I wish I had the tenacity of GSF!
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 342
C
Lunker
OP Offline
Lunker
C
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 342
Yes, its the same Pott's store. They bought out the Farmers coop in Quitman earlier this year. Pott's couldn't get gypsum in bulk. They had a few bags of hydrated gypsum that was pretty expensive. Boatcycle in Henderson had both gypsum and alum in 50 lb.bags. The gypsum was $6.50 per 50 lb. bag and it is a granular consistency that dissolves quickly in the water. Home Depot had 40 pound pelletized gypsum at some locations for $7.50 per bag.

Ken at Boatcycle said that the recommended application rate was 500 lbs per surface acre. This was less than I had read and been told by some others - but it appears to have worked. I still think that the lime was the critical first step.


"Our Life is frittered away by detail. Simplify, Simplify" -Henry David Thoreau -
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,513
Likes: 271
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,513
Likes: 271
If you have a natural bloom and not real muddy water don't add gyp or alum. as it will serve no purpose and may make things worse.

http://srac.tamu.edu/tmppdfs/381285-460f...e8f089e2d7d1d3a

All the coagulants mentioned can

remove phosphorus from water.

As phosphorus is an essential

plant nutrient, it may be necessary

to fertilize the pond after treating

it for turbidity. On occasion, phytoplankton

and clay can mutually coagulate, so fertilizing to start a

phytoplankton bloom may also

clear water of suspended clay particles.
















ewest #98505 10/01/07 12:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 165
B
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
B
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 165
Thanks Captain and Ewest:

I probably will use some gypum next spring before I fertilize. I am getting a water test this weekend when I go to Overton's to pickup my fish. And I am sure I will need to add lime. I put in about 200 lbs a week ago which is not much for an acre. It really would be cheaper to have them come out and do it for me. I did it before I read your post and had any idea Potts could do it to a pond.

Ewest if I add gypsum I will do it for esthetics. I will probably only use half the recommended rate or less. And I will wait until next spring before I fertilize. There will be enough run through the pond at that point I will have lost any bloom and nutrients I have now anyway.

Thanks for the comments and help.

Bill


I wish I had the tenacity of GSF!
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,513
Likes: 271
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,513
Likes: 271
Bill if you have a natural or fertilizer induced plankton bloom then trying to clear the water of plankton with alum or gyp. for esthetics is at cross purposes (clear water vs. fertile productive water) and may not work as per the above link. Cooler water temps will usually reduce the plankton bloom's density and the water will clear. Water quality is very important to all pond goals whether you want green water with lots of fish growth or gin clear water for swimming. There is info here on the subject and a series of PB mag articles in progress on the subject. Learning about how your pond water works is an interesting journey and is unique to your pond. It takes time and knowledge to understand how it works and responds to what you do. Good luck and post what you see and do and how it works. After about five years I began to have a good feel for our ponds and how they work and react.
















ewest #98606 10/02/07 04:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 165
B
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
B
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 165
 Originally Posted By: ewest
Bill if you have a natural or fertilizer induced plankton bloom then trying to clear the water of plankton with alum or gyp. for esthetics is at cross purposes (clear water vs. fertile productive water) and may not work as per the above link. Cooler water temps will usually reduce the plankton bloom's density and the water will clear. Water quality is very important to all pond goals whether you want green water with lots of fish growth or gin clear water for swimming. There is info here on the subject and a series of PB mag articles in progress on the subject. Learning about how your pond water works is an interesting journey and is unique to your pond. It takes time and knowledge to understand how it works and responds to what you do. Good luck and post what you see and do and how it works. After about five years I began to have a good feel for our ponds and how they work and react.


Thanks for the reply. You are right the plankton bloom will fade some in the winter. It usually has a green tint until I start getting a lot of rain and there is an overflow. In normal years there is a lot of overflow for several months. Then the ponds water looks like a clear black. But if you stick something under water it has a red ting. As I said when the pond was first built before it received any run off it was just a pit that in the center and around some of the island had ground water. Before the first run off without fertization it turned a real pretty tropical looking green. When it got the run off it did turn muddy and I did add a little gysum, not much only a very small fraction of what was recommended. The contractor had problems finding places to put all the dirt they took out and on one sloping side they put white looking sub-surface clay that was rock hard. I spread hay along with seeds over that area but also put some gypsum on that to soften the soil. That soil is still real hard still but eventually went through the disburbed ground cycle of tall weeds to grasses. And mostly now has native grasses like little bluestem and a mix of others. But I have read to really loosen up the soil you need to treat it with gysum three years in a row.

Anyway to get back to the point I think I could have a clearer water (not considering plankton) just from suspended micro suspended paritals of red clay which more than half of the pond bottom is and all of the dam. The gysum could get rid of that, then I'd fertilize to get a bloom again. Like I said the pond by the end of winer will have had a lot of turn over and usually never gets a bloom until I do fertilize except for that first year. In fact this year we were getting a lot of rain even in July and overflow and I lost my blooom and added a small amount of liquid fertilizer around the end of July, and it brought the bloom back.

So I guess it really all boils down to the clarity of the water is effected by two things, micro-suspended clay particals that I want the gypsum to get rid of during a time when there is not a plankton bloom and when all fertilizers have been washed out of the pond. Then when the water gets warm enough to fertilize get a plankton bloom that will reduce the water clarity in a good way which will probably as I have seen in other places produce a nicer looking green when the plankton is over coloring the blackish red ting. The gypsum won't keep clearing everything out of the pond forever and since has some kind chemical attraction to the suspended clay particals I don't think it would clear out plankton anyway, or don't think from what I have read. But it should be long gone before I fertilize in the spring.

I have until the end of next winter to decide for sure. I am getting the water test this weekend and maybe the lime will do the trick without the gypsum.


I wish I had the tenacity of GSF!
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 342
C
Lunker
OP Offline
Lunker
C
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 342
The water continues to clear. I measured 32-34" clarity this afternoon. The pond now looks like it has been there for years. I also decided to try a worm on a bobber and caught 3 CNBG in about 5 minutes time. Sizes were 3-5" range. These were the first fish caught out of the pond since I stocked it with 1" fish in May.


"Our Life is frittered away by detail. Simplify, Simplify" -Henry David Thoreau -
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,365
B
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
B
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,365
Hey Captain1,

If your weather is dry and the pond level is dropping, the water drop in combination with the lime helps it clear a lot faster than lime alone. I'm getting tired of my pond being muddy too. It's been full pool since Feb, so I'm reluctant to clear it up. If it ever drops 8-10", it may clear up on its own.

bobad #100428 10/24/07 09:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 342
C
Lunker
OP Offline
Lunker
C
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 342
It has been just over 2 months since adding the lime and about a month since adding the gypsum. The water has lost the green tint of the algae bloom, perhaps from the cooler weather now beginning to set in. The water now has a light brown tint to it - but is clear to about 36 inches. I can now spot bluegill off the shoreline and many bluegill fry and gambusia in the shallows. I have turned my attention to clearing some of the woods around the pond to enjoy the view of what is now a much more aesthetically pleasing pond! Now if I can just figure out what happened to all the FHM! Have not seen one nor been able to trap one since I put them in months ago?


"Our Life is frittered away by detail. Simplify, Simplify" -Henry David Thoreau -
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 165
B
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
B
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 165
I'm certainly not an expert. But the same thing happened to me the first year. I had put in pallets like I was told to for them to lay eggs on but either I didn't get the water levels right or there just wasn't enough of them.

The next spring (one year later) I bought some more and this time sunk a bunch of logs and brush at various depths. I never had a problem after that.

On that thought, my bass disappeared that first year too, and I did not restock them. I have heard now that I have stocked adult LMB most of my FH's will be gone by the third year. Another thing I did wrong, with the advise of my fingerling supplier was feeding catfish food that I think was way too large for the baby fish, they could eat FH's a lot easier. But I think my main problem was not enough quality nesting areas. They really like brush piles, and not just large logs but branchs, brambles, and all. Now they are really thick all around the pond.

My water still has some green ting to it, but it is mostly brown looking. It has happened before, it is a plankton die off because of the cold front that just came through. If it warms up it might turn green again but if it rains a lot and I have an overflow and or it stays cold it will go back to a clear black looking color until the weather warms up next spring and I fertilize. My water also has more visability now with the brown even though it looks uglier because there isn't as much plankton except for the dead stuff which will eventually clear out.

Good luck.

Last edited by Bill Webb; 10/25/07 01:26 AM.

I wish I had the tenacity of GSF!
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,287
G
GW Offline
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
G
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,287
I put 700 FHM into my neighbor's little pond 5 weeks ago and haven't seen one since. There are no other fish in the pond and water clarity is about 12 - 14 inches. We throw out pellets occasionally, but nothing...



Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
CityDad, DiamondDave, the stick
Recent Posts
Can a pond lose just one species of fish?
by FishinRod - 05/19/24 09:06 AM
TadpolePalooza!
by H20fwler - 05/19/24 07:46 AM
What did you do at your pond today?
by SetterGuy - 05/19/24 07:26 AM
Trapping the Crays
by Boondoggle - 05/18/24 05:17 PM
What Kind of Moss?
by FishinRod - 05/18/24 04:37 PM
Spotfin Shiners - Habitat, Cover and Structure
by canyoncreek - 05/17/24 11:57 AM
recommendations for northern YP/SMB/BT pond
by H20fwler - 05/17/24 10:51 AM
Bird Deter for patio furniture....
by Energymble - 05/17/24 04:46 AM
BG sex?
by Bill Cody - 05/16/24 08:50 PM
Spawn Identification
by Fishingadventure - 05/16/24 05:03 PM
Pest Control around Pond
by Bennettrand - 05/16/24 02:56 PM
Happy Birthday Bob-O
by Pat Williamson - 05/16/24 07:53 AM
Newly Uploaded Images
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
by Theo Gallus, July 28
Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5