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#497444 10/13/18 12:24 AM
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I know N8ly has been having outstanding results with his alternative stocking plans. I just wanted some feedback on what Iím thinking at this time. The pond will be about 2.5 acres spring feed. Fall 18: Stocking many FHM, RES, ES (emarld shiners), alewife and maybe some crayfish. Spring 2019 YP,SMB and possibly some GSH (gizzard shad) Fall 2019 BCP and HSB (feeding). Spring 2020 WE and TM (tiger Muskie 1-2 per acre) to reduce 12+ inch GSH. What is everyoneís suggestions on my stocking plan?
Thanks,
Heppy

Last edited by Heppy; 10/16/18 09:26 PM.
Heppy #497446 10/13/18 06:09 AM
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I am a Texas pond guy and I have learned most fish stocking is regional, so this may not mean much but, I would stay away from any gizzard shad for a few years and maybe never because they can take over a pond in a short time period. Especially when your predators are small or in low numbers. And most will say not to stock BCP in a pond that is 2.5 acres. But I personally would like to have some in my pond but have been advised against doing so in my 3+ acre pond. Best of luck to you which ever route you decide.


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Tracy
Heppy #497448 10/13/18 07:37 AM
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Gotta agree with Tracy. I would avoid the crappie and shad in anything less than about 25+ acres. Know nothing about alewife.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Heppy #497449 10/13/18 09:30 AM
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GSH is golden shiner. GSD would be gizzard shad. Some confusion there as to which you are stocking but I assume you meant GSD.

What are your goals? I'm no expert and have no experience with many of those fish so anything I say is not coming from experience but just trying to envision what you are trying to accomplish.

If your main goal is TM then that might be a fine plan (I really do not know). But if TM is not your main emphasis, as has been pointed out, looks like some of your forage choices (and timing) and the BCP might have the chance of getting out of control.

I'm just raising questions, not making suggestions, because I really do not know.

Last edited by snrub; 10/13/18 09:31 AM.

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Heppy #497482 10/14/18 05:59 PM
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Heppy, gizzard shad get mighty big. Threadfin shad might work better, especially for WE and SMB.


7ac, 2015 CNBG, RES, FHM; 2016 TP, FLMB. 2017 NLMB & GSH,L. 2018 TP & 70 HSB, PK. 2019 TP, RBT,. 2020 TFS,TP, 25 HSB & 250 F1,L,RBT, -206. 2021 TFS,TP, GSH,L,-312




Heppy #497561 10/16/18 12:33 PM
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If you can use alewife and get reproduction by them then you will not need GSD. Alewives are like TFS ( all are Clupeidae (Herrings, shads, sardines, menhadens)).
















Heppy #497578 10/16/18 09:53 PM
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TG1 and Dave Davidson1, Iím still trying to figure out the GSD timeframe if I end up going that route. I was told if I introduced HSB after the first BCP spawn they would control issues with overpopulation with BCP. This was originally for a 1/2 acre pond.

snrub, Gizzard ShaD is what I was referring. My goal for this pond is a mixed bag of fun fishing! Iím still trying to figure out the how and when to introduce each species. Heck, I may even toss some CC in the mix for good measure.

anthropic, Unfortunately TFS will not survive here.

ewest, can you tell me more about the conditions required for alewives reproduction and their fecundity?
The large amounts of rainfall have set any plans back until spring 19.
Thanks all for your replies and suggestions,
Heppy

Last edited by Heppy; 10/18/18 05:30 PM.
Heppy #497625 10/17/18 03:44 PM
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Heppy #497628 10/17/18 04:58 PM
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ewest,
Thanks for the link to alewives! I think the fecundity looks good. At the end of the article it mentions that they can cause sport fish populations to decline by feeding on their eggs and offspring. Iím not sure that this would be a bad thing. Do you have a suggestion for when to introduce them using the mixed bag of fish (FHM, RES,ES,Crayfish, YP, SMB, BCP, HSB, WE and CC) mentioned previously? Iím trying to piece this puzzle together without including the GSD right now.
Thanks!
Heppy

Last edited by Heppy; 10/18/18 05:29 PM.
Heppy #497634 10/17/18 07:46 PM
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Happy, I doubt that you could stock enough husband to control crappie in a pond that size. You might be ok for a short time but not very long.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Heppy #497635 10/17/18 10:19 PM
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Dave,
Google Infisherman Magazine Prodigious Panfish. Itís a very informative read. I would really like to know if anyone has unlocked the formula of size, how many and when to stock the species listed in the above post. I realize to stock and build the forage first. Iím not clear on the alewives due to being both predator of sport fish eggs/juveniles and prey. Thinking aloud here,
Spring 2019 FHM, ES, RES, Alewives and Crayfish.
Fall 2019 BCP, YP and SMB
Spring 2020 WE, HSB and CC
Thoughts?
Thanks!
Heppy

Last edited by Heppy; 10/18/18 05:28 PM.
Heppy #497636 10/18/18 04:18 AM
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Hereís the problem with crappie. They have big spawns and they spawn early. Hybrid stripers donít spawn. No way they can keep up with the crappies in a pond your size. I think it will be a disaster.

Run it by Bob Lusk. He has a YouTube program on Wednesday night. His feeling is to never stock crappies in less than about 25 or more acres. But, I recall something he told me about a 50 or so acre private lake that had 4 inch, paper thin, 5 or so year old crappies. Bass couldnít keep up with them so augmented with hybrid strippers. Call and ask him.

BTW, Iím kinda facing the same problem. During a drought, my 1.5 acrepond dang near dried up. I lost almost all of my bass but not the bluegills. The bass havenít made much of a come back so I stocked a dozen hybrid strippers. But, I now have an awful lot of bluegills and Iím worried about an O2 crash due to having too many bluegills. Been there, done that about 20 years ago. Essentially, I have too much prey base and not enough predators so have an out of balance pond. I think you will too.

But, I could be wrong. According to my Wife, I usually am.

Last edited by Dave Davidson1; 10/18/18 04:20 AM.

It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Heppy #497637 10/18/18 05:09 AM
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Do a search for crappie on this forum. Lots and lots of good reading to consume.

Heppy #497638 10/18/18 05:32 AM
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Here is a thread started by Pat W. on BCP Management you might find interesting. IIRC Pat has a Texas 5 acre.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=402219&page=1

There was also an article in PBM a year or two back about managing BCP with HSB in smaller BOWs. I THINK the article was written by Eric West. You might find it by looking thru the PBM summaries for 2015, 2016 or 2017 that Bill Cody maintains in the archives. I've found those summaries very useful when I'm looking for old articles to re-read.

Archives:

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=22&page=1


You can request copies of old articles from the Pond Boss office.

Last edited by Bill D.; 10/18/18 05:51 AM.

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Bill D. #497643 10/18/18 09:57 AM
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You are correct Bill. I have not had a problem with overpopulated crappie at the time . In 5 years they have spawned once for sure . Not sure what is going on but they havenít overpopulated. In fact itís getting harder to catch them every year....... go figure

Heppy #497645 10/18/18 10:22 AM
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I'm curious as to how you know it is spring fed if it hasn't ben built yet. Just wondering.

Heppy #497647 10/18/18 10:43 AM
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What about using HCP? I've been thinking about trying them if my pond ever fills, but I don't see many people trying them either. If the BCP are to be your main forage, then the HCP may not reproduce enough?


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Bobbss #497659 10/18/18 02:15 PM
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Think you answered your own question. Lol

Heppy #497664 10/18/18 04:20 PM
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Dave, I know this is out of the box thinking. I really donít have to worry about drought and the pond shrinking in size. If I were facing your situation, things would be different for sure. Do you have a way to add water to your pond? I would be curious what Bob says seeing that he knows Nate. Iím also wondering why you havenít introduced more larger LMB if that is your goal.

jludwig, I have been reading this forum for a long time and seen many people saying you canít do BCP in smaller waters. Herman Brothers Pond and Lake Management says otherwise.

Bill D, Thank you for the additional links!

Pat Williamson, Iím glad to hear of your success! Surely youíre not the only one currently active on the forum?

Mfitz70, I have found numerous spring heads on the property and I am Iím the process of developing a couple of them.

Bobbss, Iím certain the BCP not the HBC will work. I just need more information.

Thanks for all the replies thus far!
Heppy

Last edited by Heppy; 10/18/18 05:28 PM.
Heppy #497672 10/18/18 08:50 PM
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I also found this quote while reading the forum that Bill Cody emphasized. ďWhile both black bass and crappie are nest-making species, different paths are pursued after the spawn,Ē Gilliland explains. ďBass fry come off the nest and look for cover ó weeds, rock, gravel or brush. But little crappie tend to be pelagic. They move offshore to open water to feed on plankton. Fish attractors do not serve as nursery habitat for crappie fry.Ē This fact about very young crappie is why HSB are very good at reducing recruitment of young crappie.Ē

It is my belief that if you have the numbers needed of BCP/HSB you can find a balance to offset BCP overpopulation. Does anyone have a stocking plan with the fish I previously listed? Suggestions?
Thanks!
Heppy

Heppy #497675 10/19/18 05:54 AM
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Have you tried to reach out to the Herman Brothers or possibly schedule a trip to see them and gain some insights?

Heppy #497683 10/19/18 08:46 AM
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jludwig,
I spoke with Nate a couple of years ago by email/phone and will probably contact him again in the future. I hope others are aware that there are all kinds of different fish currently being used in ponds. Gizzard Shad, Black Crappie, Paddlefish and Tiger Muskie are some unusual ones that come to mind. There is definitely a stocking plan that you have to follow to get the desired results with all species of fish. I know LESS than most people on this forum but I like to ask questions about things I do not understand. It only educates me further. On another thread here titled Automatic Siphon Systems; I am looking for a solution (and getting close) for anyone no matter their location (Florida to Alaska) for this setup to work. This type of information not only helps me but gives the necessary steps for others in the future contemplating a similiar scenario. I really appreciate all the responses to my post. Please keep them coming!
Thanks!
Heppy


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