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Joined: Oct 2017
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KapHn8d Offline OP
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My mini-pond is really, really "muddy". I am working on getting the right vegetation around the edges to help with dirt and clay run-off during big storms, but the visibility has fallen so low that I feel it is negatively impacting bluegill spawning. I am a complete beginner, so I may be reading too much into this, but I would have suspected to see some sunfish fry by this time of year in east Texas. There are no predator species introduced into this new mini-pond yet and the CNBG and RES I put in last fall (with FHM) that have survived are all in the 4 to 6 inch range. The pond was built in non-permeable clay in piney woods, so I limed the entire pond before filling to help with some of the acidity. I'm not necessarily concerned with over-liming since Bob always says alkaline pH sorta levels out at a point, but I am concerned about rate of change of pH and it's impact on fish. If I use ag lime in my pond to try and knock some of the suspended clay down, is there a concern around pH impact on fish or is it slow enough that they adjust safely?

Since I only limed before filling, this is my first time applying anything to the water (lime, gypsum, alum, etc), so I am not 100% familiar with the procedure. I was just planning on spreading the ag lime by hand. Pointers?

edit: also, should I turn off aeration when applying? Dolomitic Limestone is what I was considering.

thanks!
Clayton

Last edited by KapHn8d; 06/30/18 12:37 PM.

96.85840735 percent clayton... the rest is just pi.

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If my pH was around a 7 then I would not be concerned with it rising to 8 by adding agg lime in a short period of time. I am no expert but I think you can get to around 8.3+ or - with the agg lime. I would keep aeration going. I would think it would help to disperse the chemical into the pond. And with it being hot here in E. Texas the hot water will contain less O2 than colder water temps so I would run the aeration at night other than to shut it down completely.


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Clayton, take some pond water in a mason jar and add a little gypsum. If it clears overnight, maybe you could add gypsum to your pond.


7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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pH change is only a concern if it is rapid (a .5 or more change within a few minutes or less). Ag Lime will take days before changing the pH much, depending on water acidity. Ag Lime tops out around 8.2. Do a jar test to see if the water clears. Ag Lime is also unlikely to help clear your water, but will still add valuable minerals and can never hurt (may hurt the bank account)



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KapHn8d Offline OP
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Thanks for the feedback, fellas. If this doesn't help in clearing up the water, I'll probably end up hiring a local pond management company for guidance after I get some more vegetation established. I really don't know what I'm doing.

/c


96.85840735 percent clayton... the rest is just pi.

We become what we think about.
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If your visibility (or lack of) is due to suspended clay, then you need to look into an alum/hydrated lime mixture. That's my understanding anyway. If your visibility is due to algae/phytoplankton bloom, that's not necessarily a bad thing unless your shooting for a gin clear pond. If that's the case you can look into barley straw or barley extract to clear up your water.


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
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Related question. Our new ponds, including the one I dug last year have a glacial, Caribbean, blueish water color that is somewhat transparent, with maybe a 2-3 feet of visibility, maybe even greater. They have red and grey clay bottoms and pretty much do not leak at all. Is the blue water color just low fertility, or also likely due to suspended grey clay? In my previous two ponds this color disappeared over time, maybe due to increased fertility and influx of plants and aquatic life? Actually, looks really pretty while it lasts.

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It's low fertility, or not enough time for a bloom to become well started. When my newest pond first filled with rainwater runoff from the hayfield, after a few days of settling, it had extremely clear water, 5 feet visibility. That was late winter. After the bloom started in March, visibility decreased drastically.

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Clayton, due to some floods and a lot of rock/sand, my visibility has been zilch this year. I also worried about getting ant kind of spawn. However, due to HOT weather and resulting water level dropping, today I found some nests that are barely in the water. And, also some bg fry. You may be ok.


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Dave, you give me hope! smile

I actually don't care too much about the visibility from an aesthetics standpoint because the water clarity changes so much through the seasons. I was really wanting to clear it up a smidge for the fish. Since this is a new pond, I know I have a ways to go with establishing submerged vegetative habitat (very apropos topic in Bob's FB Live this week). The pond has fluctuated from very clear to slightly murky with the rains. I have a secchi and measured at first, but have since made visual queues along the bank falloff and can kinda "ballpark it" without the disk. This last few weeks, it has been the poorest visibility since instantiation. I don't think it's a bloom based on color, but it certainly could be. All seems to be well sans visibility. I just want my CNBG to make babies and they aren't cooperating. Maybe I'm reading too much into this... smile

Thanks, guys...

/c


96.85840735 percent clayton... the rest is just pi.

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What is your current Ph?


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Our half-acre Caribbean sea:





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My pond was red from suspended clay. I limed prior to fertilizing this spring, and poof the water cleared right up. I used eight 50 pound bags of barn lime from Tractor Supply dumped in from shore. $2.99 a bag. It was calcium carbonate, (they also offer a magnesium rich lime).

Sometimes the simple approach works.


4 acre pond 32 ft deep within East Texas (Livingston) timber ranch. Filled (to the top of an almost finished dam) by Hurricane Harvey 9/17. Stocked with FHM, CNBG, RES 10/17. Added 35lbs RSC 3/18. 400 N LMB fingerlings 6/18
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Visibility in my "blue" water is pretty good.

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Hey, sorry about the delayed response, fellas... was kinda preoccupied with the holiday family activities.

Anyway, my water is still really murky. I added 250 lbs of dolomitic ag lime a few days ago (this is a mini-pond maybe 1/10th acre) hoping that I'd see some response, but nothing changed. We did get a pretty steady rain yesterday for several hours resulting in the pond spilling over the levee for a bit. It's completely full as a result.

So here is the current status: average secchi depth is less than 8", water temp is 92F, pH is 8.2-ish. Given the pH, I'm not going to waste adding the other 250 lbs of lime at the moment and will save it for future use. I guess I'm going to hold off until I get better filtration vegetation around the pond edges and reassess using something else to clear the water (someone suggested gypsum). I'd hate to spend money on clearing it up only to have the first rain undo it.

Cheers,
Clayton



That notch you see on the secchi line at the surface is the 6" mark.

Last edited by KapHn8d; 07/06/18 08:14 AM.

96.85840735 percent clayton... the rest is just pi.

We become what we think about.
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Where do y'all source gypsum? I've seen articles about how to determine amount to add using the jars method, but how do you determine how course it should be? or is the ultra-fine ground usually what is recommended when using to clean up suspended particles in a pond?


96.85840735 percent clayton... the rest is just pi.

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See those bubbles on the surface of the water? Check the PH when they are there and when they are not. The sun will swing the PH on you quite a bit during the day. I can't remember 100% but I think the PH is the lowest it will be when you have the bubbles on the surface. Heck my air stations would make big 1.5" bubbles that would stay first thing in the morning for 8-10 feet from the station.

If your getting the PH swing the pond is working. Air stations can mix up the clay and make things murky too.

Cheers Don.


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If you are worried about your BG spawn get a minnow trap baited with some fish or dog food and put it parallel with the bank with about 6" to a foot of water over the top (in other words, shallow).

This time of year you should have good numbers of 2-3" BG go into the trap (three inch BG is about as big as can go in a standard 1" trap opening hole. If you want to catch bigger fish need to expand the hole a little).

BG go into a baited trap very well. Other species like LMB it is more by accident if they go in. But a minnow trap will check out your BG YOY very well.

I recommend Gees brand galvanized traps. I like them the best.

I have hand shoveled lime out into a couple of ponds. I don't think you have anything to worry about as far as hurting the fish. Sling it out in a fan shape as far as you can. Leave the aeration on to help the current mix it.

Last edited by snrub; 07/06/18 07:43 PM.

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Thanks for the pointers, guys... I appreciate you!



/c


96.85840735 percent clayton... the rest is just pi.

We become what we think about.

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