Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose growth rate of BG -v- HBG

Do HBG actually grow faster than BG?

Scenario in my pond is that I originally stocked regular BG. They were in the 6" range. A few years later ( 3? ) I threw in some HBG at a smaller size, about 3-4". They have grown to a pound with some pushing 1.5 pounds, probably in two/three years. I have never caught a regular BG at a pound. Maybe a few pushing it, but not like the HBG. Seems odd to me.

Ah, the big question. Conventional wisdom states that HBG will out grow BG for the first couple years, then the BG will catch up and eventually surpass the HBG in so far as ultimate growth potential goes.

Now the bigger question...how does it actually play out in a pond scenario typical of what many of us have?? Not in a lab, not an experiment with conditions manipulated, but a real world pond.

My experience suggests that HBG will outgrow BG in a normal pond scenario, all conditions being equal. I acknowledge that BG may attain larger ultimate size, but question how many BG will max out at this ultimate size vs. how many HBG will max out at their ultimate size. I have many HBG over 1.5 lbs, and they got there fairly quickly.

I have no idea about straight BG. But my HBG were put into my pond as 4" fish about 12 months ago and last month I sampled several that were 8.5" and 98% RW. I only feed about 2-4 seconds of optimal BG from a Texas hunter feeder so I assume these are satisfactory results.

Compare apples to apples - all male BG pond vs HBG.

The science says HBG grow faster at first but over time they are about the same size. Aggression and sample size (few caught vs whole pond)make a huge difference. BG learn not to bite but HBG mostly do not due ,in my opinion, to GSF genes/hybrid vigor. Most BG/HBG studies I have seen are real ponds not a lab.

Yes, I am comparing similar, male to male, etc.


So it does sound like the growth I am seeing in the HBG is not unusual, yet what about the size of the original stocked BG ( and even their offspring) versus the age of the size/age of the HBG. Just seems like I should be having some BG that are larger than a pound? One might say that the food isn't there, but the HBG are finding it.

One thought is that possibly the original large BG stocked didn't make it? ---the philosophy of moving large fish idea. It could be that they are in there, just NEVER catching one. No way to know that until you drain it.

I'm hoping this isn't a hijack of this thread. Hopefully, it should add to the discussion of HBG vs. BG.

I'm at a serious crossroads in my thinking and planning for the next few weeks. As many know, Lynda and I are going to be putting our place up for sale sometime this calendar year.

I have about a 1/3 acre "put-and-take" pond of HBG, HSB, some RES, CC, one very pretty koi about 18 inches, and one very healthy LMB that was put in at about 4-5 inches, and is now about 15-18 inches.

Because we'll be selling the place, I'm not sure what to do with this pond regarding BG vs. HBG. Normally at this time of year I'd stock another 25 4-7 inch CC, about fifteen 8-10 inch HSB, and I'd put about 100 HBG into a cage or my secondary grow-out pond to grow to at least 5-6 inches before releasing them into the general population.

The HBG grow very fast during the first one or two seasons. They truly cause feeding frenzies when the feeders go off. They are incredible fun. We harvest all we catch over about 9 inches. Most of those have been in the pond for two years. I love them because they don't get hook shy and because they grow so fast in the first couple of years. Then they seem to grow about the same as regular bluegill -- but the regular bluegill are nowhere as near as feisty. This is all just from observation, and nothing scientific.

I have two land-locked brood/grow-out ponds that are odd-shaped. I'd say they each have about 200-300 square feet of surface area, with maximum depths of four feet. They have flat bottoms can be drawn down for seining.

Earlier this season, I put a total mix of about a fifteen fish that include some RES, BG, and several mutt fish that are 2nd or 3rd generation HBG into one of the grow-out ponds. It is just kind of a crazy experiment. Assuming they spawn, I'm not sure what I will do with the final product.

But, I don't really know what to do with the put-and-take pond. I have no idea of what kind of people might buy our place. I don't want to ruin a great fun pond for them, if they are pond people. If they aren't pond people, should I leave them with a second pond good for reasonable LMB/BG/RES/CC?

If so, I would add a bunch of regular BG and a reasonable ratio of LMB to the mix. I wouldn't add HSB or any more CC.

My 0.7 acre pond is already a decent LMB/BG pond.

Consider doing nothing and write up a short history(that above could work) of the ponds. Then write down your suggestions for the new owners. Then they have ideas to do what they so choose. You could leave your telephone number if they have specific questions.

The apple to apples comparison would be a pond with HBG and only male BG. Male BG in a male/female pond use up lots of energy on reproduction while HBG do not. This effects growth as energy in - energy used = growth.

Pardon me for making things even more complicated, but for southern ponds, what about CNBG v HBG? I know CNBG are reputed to be more aggressive and possibly outgrow BG in warmer waters...

And I must admit that the HBG sound really good for a pond for kids. Maybe someday I'll build a smaller BOW and stock it with them, a few F1 female bass, and HSB. Could be fun!

PS Oh, all right. Having panfish grow over a pound that don't get hook shy interests ME as well as the kids!

Here is one thing to consider. A 3" CNBG or regular BG can not eat an AM500 pellet. Given enough time as the pellet softens they can tear it apart and will readily eat it. A 3" GSF can easily down a AM500 pellet and a HBG will be able to eat a full pellet a lot sooner than a BG or CNBG of the same relative size.

Come feeding time, assuming a person is not feeding to full satiation, which fish are going to be the most well fed?

Likely the HBG over the BG if they are in the same pond competing for the same floating feed and limited resources. Add in that GSF genes likely make the HBG even more aggressive, and they get my vote for early fast growth over a regular BG.

Thanks for clarify that. The HBG do not have spawning tendencies because there are very few female HBG? I would have thought they would go after the regular female BG ?

That is something I had been missing too. I bet you are right snrub.

I just wonder tho, in aprox six years shouldn't some of the BG be over a pound? Catch a lot just under. I wonder if the big ones need thinning? Perhaps the HBG suppress the BG growth more than one thinks.

Slow your roll boys...this idea of an aggressive panfish that doesn't get hookshy has not been the case in my situation. If you're fishing occasionally, and/or keeping what you catch with a high number of hybrids present, then okay. But under a steady regime of fishing pressure and CPR, coupled with learned behavior, (or conditioned response if it suits your palate better), AND smaller stocking quantities beneficial to growing trophy hybs, these fish get a serious case of lockjaw.

And the larger gape of a HBG should enable them to utilize natural forage too large for BG over the course of their indeterminate lifespan, provided a source of forage exists.

They do have spawning tendencies, and build nests just like BG do.

Spark.. Do any of your ponds have a mix of BG and HBG? And if so, have you noticed the HBG dominant/trying over the male BG spawn? My pond is such that you can't observe the BG nests.

There are a few native BG in with the hybrids. And yes, the hybs dominate.

That is something you will have to ask me a couple years from now. Then I still might not know. my pond is only about 4 years old now.

I know as my BG population get thicker and thicker, it becomes harder to catch those larger fish before a hungry 6-7" fish gets to the hook.