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Originally Posted by FishinRod
If we ever have a full-scale nuclear war, then cockroaches will rule the land and green sunfish will rule the fresh waters of the world!

The tardigrades will continue to rule the low earth orbital region.
Osage Orange trees will thrive.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
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Originally Posted by Theo Gallus
Originally Posted by FishinRod
If we ever have a full-scale nuclear war, then cockroaches will rule the land and green sunfish will rule the fresh waters of the world!

The tardigrades will continue to rule the low earth orbital region.
Osage Orange trees will thrive.

I have 100-year-old Osage Orange fence posts on our farm that are still in good shape.

I am afraid to make Osage Orange brush piles in my ponds for fear the cuttings will come back to life and take over the pond! grin

Last edited by FishinRod; 01/30/24 03:28 PM. Reason: Clarification of dad joke
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Osage Orange won't come back from the dead, but I wouldn't stick a freshly-cut piece of it in the dirt next to my pond.

I've never tried to propagate the stuff, but I've seen what a live one will do if you pile dirt up against the trunk and leave
it alone for a year or three. I did that with some of the spoil from my pond renovation. When I finally cleaned it up that
tree had roots the size of my wrist growing out of the trunk 6' above the original grade.

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We have a mile of Osage Orange ("Hedge Apple" in Ahia) fence rows in and around our farm. In 37 years, we have managed to kill two of them.

Small ones.


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Originally Posted by Augie
Osage Orange won't come back from the dead, but I wouldn't stick a freshly-cut piece of it in the dirt next to my pond.

Dang it!

Just went back to edit and add the grinning emoticon to denote that I was joking.

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Originally Posted by FishinRod
Originally Posted by Augie
Osage Orange won't come back from the dead, but I wouldn't stick a freshly-cut piece of it in the dirt next to my pond.

Dang it!

Just went back to edit and add the grinning emoticon to denote that I was joking.
If you dig a ditch cutting Hedge roots, new trees will sprout on both sides of the ditch.


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Originally Posted by Theo Gallus
Originally Posted by FishinRod
Originally Posted by Augie
Osage Orange won't come back from the dead, but I wouldn't stick a freshly-cut piece of it in the dirt next to my pond.

Dang it!

Just went back to edit and add the grinning emoticon to denote that I was joking.
If you dig a ditch cutting Hedge roots, new trees will sprout on both sides of the ditch.

Our Honey Locust is the same way. Cut down several when I first started clearing brush at our property. Apparently the roots have "nodes" that will propagate a new tree - or 50.

I now nuke them (and Osage Orange) with Pathway applied to a fresh cut stump in the fall when the sap is running down to the roots. Pathway is 2,4-D and picloram. It is a systemic herbicide and is not supposed to be used near bodies of water.

I have even seen it kill Honey Locust trees 40 feet away that I did NOT treat. I assume the trees were connected via their root network?

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How do you sterilize ground water before digging a new pond as suggested ? Is it a total waste of time to try to avoid green sunfish ? I'm having a pond dug out that will be fed by watershed and water table when high enough. Neighbor has a small pond 1/2 mile away that has green sunfish in it.

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B storm,

Ground water does NOT need to be sterilized to avoid the transfer of unwanted fish. No fish fry or eggs can pass a sand aquifer. (The only exception would be something like a cavern that transmits underground stream flow to a pond.)

The neighbor's pond MIGHT be a different story.

My upslope neighbor has a waterway through his alfalfa field. It conveys water right into the waterway in my field. If your neighbor's pond were to overflow during a heavy rain event, would any fish escapees go into some type of waterway that would then feed surface water into your pond? If so, then I would suspect you would have a decent chance of getting GSF in your pond.

Another situation would be where his waterway and your waterway join together somewhere farther downslope. In that case, as the flows start to wane, fish will frequently start swimming back "upstream". I have seen fish swim up flows where their backs were out of the water! The solution for that situation is to create an "air gap" for your pond outlet pipe. Instead of having your pipe terminate in a pool of water, put a 45 degree elbow and an extension on the end so that it sticks up in the air. You would need to create a splash pad of rock or concrete so your outlet pipe heavy flows don't create an erosion problem.

Are you good friends with your neighbor? If his pond is going to drain directly into your pond, then perhaps you could help him install a better water inlet screen for his pond outlet pipe. That would be a win-win situation. His fish are more likely to stay in his pond, and more likely to stay out of your pond.

Good luck on your new pond project!

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Originally Posted by B storm
How do you sterilize ground water before digging a new pond as suggested ? Is it a total waste of time to try to avoid green sunfish ? I'm having a pond dug out that will be fed by watershed and water table when high enough. Neighbor has a small pond 1/2 mile away that has green sunfish in it.


IF the area that you are digging your pond in has standing water in it, I'd consider using hydrated lime to bring the pH up to 11, that will kill any fish.

Like FishingRod says, you don't have to sterilize ground water, just keep an eye on surface water. Fish can move from pond to pond in less than 1" flowing water (or standing water for that matter).


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Oops, esshup is correct that I left out one scenario.

If you have an existing body of water that could have been filled by either groundwater and/or surface water, then you should sterilize THAT before spending big bucks on your stocking plans.

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OK thanks guys My neighbors pond does not flow into mine in any way. Only connection would be source of underground water above us when water table gets high enough. Watershed is separated by valley which meets below ,no way for fish to get back to me. Mine plan is to put a drop box type drain then pipe thru bottom of damn rather than the pipe near top. No standing water yet, but alot of mud lately. Can't start till it dries up somewhat. After all that dry spell ,my luck.

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If there is no surface water connection to another pond or creek, then I don't see any risk of invasive fish coming in via groundwater.

If the flow of water from your outlet will not create a continuous water connection to a creek, then you should be safe from fish moving upstream. However, they will move upstream from surprisingly little water flows!

How are you going to keep your pond excavation area dry enough to work if you are creating a groundwater pond? You may need to cut a sump and a drainage trench to convey water out of your worksite and far down the slope away from you.

If the geometry of that does not work, then you probably need to dig a sump and plan on running a trash pump while you are excavating the pond. Wet clay is NOT FUN when combined with heavy equipment.

Good luck on your new pond!

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If putting a drain through the toe of the dam, you will need to compact the dirt under, on the sides and on top of the drain pipe, in addition you should have an anti-seep collar or two on the drain pipe.


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My understanding is we're letting water thru a temp hole in drop box and out drain pipe. Then I'll close off the temp hole with concrete. The pipe will have clay completely around it top ,bottom ,and sides. Along with a clay key length of dam and below water line.

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