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UV and Yellow Perch
#462252 01/18/17 08:53 AM
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Hi folks,

I'm hoping to tap some of the expertise here. We stocked fingerling YP in a shallow, clear pond (we'er in western PA) 2 years ago last summer. Last time a small school of them were spotted they looked fat and happy. So we're hoping they might spawn this year. Problem is the water is very clear and at most 4-feet deep in the pond. I'm worried the UV will kill all the eggs. Also, the pond has high turn-over especially with spring rains.

So, I'm debating adding pond dye, fertilizer, some sort of floating shade or ??? in hopes of upping the odds for the YP spawn. Is there a slow release approach that would be helpful with dye or fertilizer? When to add any of the above?

Thanks for the help in advance,

Dale


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Re: UV and Yellow Perch
hobbyman #462257 01/18/17 12:33 PM
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I'm not sure I understand the harm from the sun. When perch eggs hatch in MI at ice out, the sun is low enough on the horizon yet that you could not get enough UV on your bare skin to create any redness or tan no matter if you were out all day. I doubt UV index is very high.

Also, my perch eggs are in 6-10" of water and hatched fine. I don't think you can control how deep they lay their eggs, they tend to find the spot they like and put them there.

Others might know more about the UV connection to egg survival.

Re: UV and Yellow Perch
hobbyman #462259 01/18/17 01:45 PM
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The YP eggs are tolerant of UV and the lighting conditions of early spring. Your pond is quite shallow and vegetation issues will be a constant problem together with potential oxygen sag problems in winter an/or mid-summer. Aeration for the pond will minimize DO problems especially in winter with ice and extended snow cover. Your pond has little depth at 4 ft deep. Increased depth of 14-20ft provides a greater DO reserve during winter. The better perch growers that I know use blue dye in their ponds. Thus it will work okay in your pond. Keep in mind fewer natural foods will occur with dye in the pond and with dye supplemental pellet food will help grow more and bigger perch.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/18/17 01:47 PM.

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Re: UV and Yellow Perch
Bill Cody #462269 01/18/17 04:18 PM
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Bill,

Thanks for the feedback. Good to know the UV is not a big deal. Our overall concept is to get reproduction in this small shallow pond then transfer fingerlings to a couple of deeper ponds. The deeper ponds have LMB in them so we hope to get decent numbers of fingerlings, feed them up some, then transfer en mass to hopefully get some survival (i'm sure most will become bass food). Any thoughts on our approach? This shallow pond is loaded with common shiners, which I take as an indication that winter kill is not too much of a problem but I can't say for sure.

So far not much ice coverage this year. I was hoping to get some hard water fishing in, but missed the only short period of good ice we've had. It's mostly open water now.

Dale


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Re: UV and Yellow Perch
hobbyman #462275 01/18/17 05:35 PM
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The project is feasible. Do you know the small pond's alklinity?Fertilizing it somewhat would boost numbers of YP you could grow. Correct fertilization is a tricky process and has to be timed correctly in spring so you grow plankton not algae and weeds in only 4 ft of water. If fertilization is not an option considering grinding fish food and feeding shiners. Some of the new YP will take to also eating the ground food when watching the shiners eat. Also feeding the shiners at YP hatching will decrease the predation of the YP fry.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/18/17 05:36 PM.

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Re: UV and Yellow Perch
hobbyman #462298 01/18/17 10:51 PM
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I haven't measured alkalinity in that pond but I will. Most of our ponds are also primarily groundwater ponds and run around 100 mg/l.

We had a feeder set up feeding aquamax 500 to the shiners / perch the summer of 2015 but it had a problem. The shiner population really took off that summer. We didn't replace the feeder this past year, but would could this season. The pond has lots of chara (our local nutrient hog), so getting a decent bloom might be tuff. Maybe we'll focus on getting small feed going early in the year. What are your thoughts on timing to start feed?


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Re: UV and Yellow Perch
hobbyman #462316 01/19/17 12:01 PM
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IMO fertilizing with Chara beds present is a waste of money. Chara will try to suck up all the fertilizer. Scattering ground feed can begin 7-14 days after you see perch eggs. If you can't hand feed daily you may have to buy a special type of feeder since the ground feed will have a lot of fines. Clumping will want to be a problem with using ground feed in an mechanical feeder.


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Re: UV and Yellow Perch
hobbyman #462320 01/19/17 01:43 PM
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Bill,

I can't visit the pond much other than weekends - it's about 45 minutes from home, opposite direction from work. I get what you're saying about ground feed clumping rather than throwing. I wonder if some sort of aquarium / koi pond feeder might be the ticket to kick things off in the spring? I see a brand name KLAREN feeder on amazon - cheap enough that I could consider it a toss out when it fails. Maybe I'll give one a try and report back. I think if I mount it inside a pail or some sort of enclosure it might make it through a season. I'm saving Cabela's points for a TH feeder, but it will be going on a different pond this year.

Thanks again,
Dale


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Re: UV and Yellow Perch
hobbyman #462367 01/20/17 11:08 AM
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UV influence update on yellow perch eggs. I found some research that indicates that UV light is considered beneficial to the hatching success of YP eggs. The authors concluded the lack of adequate UV light reduce the hatching success of the eggs. So bright light and clear water basically do not reduce hatching of perch eggs. Interesting.


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Re: UV and Yellow Perch
Bill Cody #462368 01/20/17 11:27 AM
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Bill,
That is interesting. I was concerned due to some "research" I came across published by in-fisherman (http://www.in-fisherman.com/panfish/yellow-perch/uv-and-perch-spawning/). Not exactly a peer reviewed journal, but it's what got me worried in the first place. I suppose we have a case study in the making - hopefuly we confirm UV at western PA levels is good.
Dale


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Re: UV and Yellow Perch
hobbyman #462386 01/20/17 08:04 PM
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UV and Effects on Hatching of yellow perch.
From Fisheries and Oceans Canada publication
The level of ultraviolet radiation (UVR) is considered important in hatching success of yellow perch (Williamson et al. 1997). In a Pennsylvania study, incubation success was dependent upon the degree of exposure to UVR at different depths with different dissolved organic carbon (DOC) concentrations (Huff et al. 2004). High levels of UVR in surface waters with low DOC killed 100% of the yellow perch eggs, while UVR had little impact on egg survival in the high DOC lake. Depth of spawning differed, as 92% of the eggs deposited in the low DOC lake were at depths greater than 3m while 76% of the egg masses in the higher DOC lake were spawned at less than 1m. The authors suggest that perch spawn at greater depths to avoid UVR, but deeper spawning may reduce developmental rates because of the lower temperature (Huff et al. 2004).


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Re: UV and Yellow Perch
hobbyman #462405 01/21/17 03:56 PM
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Fish hatching and initial survival is a huge gamble and the vast majority don't make it to 3 mths . Often when the spawn is successful the hoard of hatchings over eat the food source and starve . Many species require uv to hatch but to much and they fry .

Last edited by ewest; 01/21/17 03:57 PM.















Re: UV and Yellow Perch
ewest #462477 01/23/17 09:49 AM
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Sounds like a crap shoot to me. Maybe we'll just see what happens and set up a feeder, ground up feed if we can figure that out. If we don't get a spawn this year, we could try pond dye next year (or vise versa).

Thanks for the feedback - it's going to be interesting either way.


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Re: UV and Yellow Perch
hobbyman #462497 01/23/17 11:22 AM
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hobbyman - keep up updated with your pond progress as things happen this spring. It will be good to know success of the spawn in terms of egg ribbons, the hatch, and how many fingerlings you have this fall.


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