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I do not think that creek chubs spawn in ponds. If you can find lake chubsuckers, they will spawn. Of course, be careful what you add in terms of good ID and health.

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I "potentially" have three types of shiners, bluntnose and bullhead minnows, speckled chub, silver chub, some dace, some darters, one species of stoneroller, and one species of killifish.

I predict I will be making lots of posts into the fish ID sub-forum.

I may have to rotate experimenting with a single species in a forage pond as the only way to find out what truly works!

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It’s time for our annual spring toad mass breeding event. The pond has 1000s of toads around the banks. Just piled on top of each other. Not afraid of anything. The trilling sound is deafening. Already clouds of black eggs around the banks. In a few days there will be millions of tiny black tadpoles. If I could figure out a way to link in a video, you could enjoy the racket.

Last edited by SetterGuy; 04/24/22 01:40 PM.

9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
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Originally Posted by SetterGuy
It’s time for our annual spring toad mass breeding event. The pond has 1000s of toads around the banks. Just piled on top of each other. Not afraid of anything. The trilling sound is deafening. Already clouds of black eggs around the banks. In a few days there will be millions of tiny black tadpoles. If I could figure out a way to link in a video, you could enjoy the racket.
I haven't seen any in my main pond this year, I wonder if the LMB have something to do with that? My sediment pond has a fair amount of them and lots of eggs of different types.

Last edited by Bobbss; 04/24/22 04:39 PM.

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Originally Posted by Bobbss
Originally Posted by SetterGuy
It’s time for our annual spring toad mass breeding event. The pond has 1000s of toads around the banks. Just piled on top of each other. Not afraid of anything. The trilling sound is deafening. Already clouds of black eggs around the banks. In a few days there will be millions of tiny black tadpoles. If I could figure out a way to link in a video, you could enjoy the racket.
I haven't seen any in my main this year, I wonder if the LMB have something to do with that? My sediment pond has a fair amount of them and lots of eggs of different types.

Very early the life of my pond we experienced a toad mass breeding event, but to my knowledge it hasn't been repeated. Back then we had a relatively small population of LMB, so maybe that was a factor.


7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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I'd caged some CNBG for a really helpful neighbor that had 2 new ponds. We had caught plenty of males, but had very few females. Today, we caught enough females to balance out the spawning ratios, and get his bigger pond started. I'm guessing around 40 pounds of CNBG.

A healthy 10 inch male.
[Linked Image]

I believe this is the same one.
[Linked Image]

He, She
[Linked Image]


AL

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Wow! Do my eyes deceive me, or did that ten incher weigh 1.72 lb? What kind of relative weight is that?


7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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Al, have you caught any 2# ones yet? Beautiful fish!!!


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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That appears to be some fantastic broodstock that you are delivering to your neighbor!

I hope his bass grow big enough to be able to eat their offspring.

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Originally Posted by ]
I haven't seen any in my main this year, I wonder if the LMB have something to do with that? My sediment pond has a fair amount of them and lots of eggs of different types.[/quote
Very early the life of my pond we experienced a toad mass breeding event, but to my knowledge it hasn't been repeated. Back then we had a relatively small population of LMB, so maybe that was a factor.

I don’t have any LMB, maybe that’s why we keep getting these toad orgies.. I didn’t think there were this many toads within a mile of the pond.
We also have thousands of big bullfrog tadpoles every year. I guess SMB do not bother with either of them.


9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
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Scott, still no 2#'s, but plenty of fatties. I still haven't turned on my feeders, and am hand feeding. After 2 years of blue/green algae, and very little rain since last September, I went rogue. No treating algae, no spraying weeds, no feeders, and no problems.

anthropic, RW is somewhere around 160%. Others can correct me if needed. Scale with ruler is zeroed out after the tray is wet down.

Last edited by FireIsHot; 04/27/22 08:55 AM.

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Nice fish Al !!! That pair may provide 50,000 offspring this year.
















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Originally Posted by FireIsHot
Scott, still no 2#'s, but plenty of fatties. I still haven't turned on my feeders, and am hand feeding. After 2 years of blue/green algae, and very little rain since last September, I went rogue. No treating algae, no spraying weeds, no feeders, and no problems.

anthropic, RW is somewhere around 160%. Others can correct me if needed. Scale with ruler is zeroed out after the tray is wet down.
I also did not use my automatic feeder last year at my main pond because of blue-green algae the year before. That and we are now raising so many pounds of fish already plus being fully retired and traveling more didn't think we could keep up with proper harvest.

The more a person manages a pond for performance, the more management the pond requires.

Last edited by snrub; 04/27/22 08:24 PM.

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[/quote]
I also did not use my automatic feeder last year at my main pond because of blue-green algae the year before. That and we are now raising so many pounds of fish already plus being fully retired and traveling more didn't think we could keep up with proper harvest.

The more a person manages a pond for performance, the more management the pond requires.[/quote]

Truer words were never spoken. The sharply increased cost of fish food & stocking forage fish has me rethinking my strategy. I suspect that I'm not alone in this. Pond management practices may need modification to account for different economic conditions.

Last edited by anthropic; 04/27/22 11:36 PM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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Your neighbor appreciates that, Al. Hey but please don't stop with the glorious eye candy pics. Tell us about your neighbor's larger pond, his goal, and the stocking plan you are helping him to administer.

Last edited by jpsdad; 04/28/22 08:32 AM.

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We drained our pond two years ago, finished digging it out and repaired the dam late last summer. It still has about two vertical feet left until it's completely full. We've put a lot of time into it and it seems like we have so much more to do in order to get everything where we want it.

We put aeration in two weekends ago and stocked it last weekend. Those were two big exciting steps for us and I finally feel like we are getting over the hump. My wife and I both had some anxiety once we first cut the dam and drained it. We had a huge 2+ acre mudhole in our yard and I wasn't sure if and when we'd get a full pond back or how much it would be improved.

We have rain coming over the next week, hopefully enough to finish filling it and then we will get to see if our spillway will keep it drained down from filling over the dock. We aren't sure and it looks like it's going to be close. Before the redo, it would keep it just a couple of inches below the dock. It was perfect. We don't have an overflow pipe. The pond has only drained through the spillway and never eroded for all the years we owned it so we kept it that way. I seeded it last year and have some grass growth, hopefully it's enough to hold the soil. It was awesomely thick before which held the ground well. It's wide and the flow tends to be spread out but the pond hasn't had overflow just yet and we're a bit nervous about how it's going to work for us this time around.

Yesterday I spread straw and seed across our far bank. It's pretty much clay and gravel and I'm hoping this is going to work. We did well late last year getting the dam, the two flow areas into the pond and the spillway seeded and growing. The bank adjacent to the lawn kept itself green for us.

Anyways, so many things I want to get done and others I need to get done, plus too much stuff not pond related to do. We'll see what we get but every item off the checklist is another small reward.

Last edited by SherWood; 04/28/22 08:43 AM.
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Hope your pond meets all your expectations SherWood.


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Originally Posted by SherWood
We have rain coming over the next week, hopefully enough to finish filling it and then we will get to see if our spillway will keep it drained down from filling over the dock. We aren't sure and it looks like it's going to be close. Before the redo, it would keep it just a couple of inches below the dock. It was perfect.

If the "new" water level turns out to be not quite perfect, you could still install an automatic siphon system. That would allow you to readily adjust the water level to perfect. Or even allow you to pull down the pond if that would help you in some future pond management project.

Good luck on your big project and getting your "new" pond in the optimal state for your family's use!

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Originally Posted by jpsdad
Your neighbor appreciates that, Al. Hey but please don't stop with the glorious eye candy pics. Tell us about your neighbor's larger pond, his goal, and the stocking plan you are helping him to administer.

The pond i put the CNBG in is approximately 3/4 to 1 acre, cashew shaped, and is still a tad muddy. There is one brushpile, and that's where the fish were added, and will be fed. Only 1/4" pellets will be fed.

My current plan is to manage the water numbers, and walk away. One of the most common pond issues is an overpopulation of LMB, and the difficultly in getting a forage/predator balance restored. I'm taking the opposite route by giving the stocked CNBG a year to spawn, and hopefully have 10's if not 100's of thousands of stunted CNBG fry and fingerlings. This fall, I'll stock another 100-200 3-4" CNBG from my hatchery pond. I'm up for our electroshocking next year, and will get it the last week of March, or the first week of April, and pull 15-20 female LMB out for neighbor's pond. If a male is accidentally stocked, then I would think the ravenous small CNBG would handle a LMB bed or two. Since 1/4" pellets are all that will be thrown to the small number of breeder sized CNBG, the YOY should have slow growth and hopefully be runts, and not outgrow the LMB gape.

The only real negative is the productivity time table being drug out until next year(the neighbor is good with that since he has other ponds), and the potential difficulty in catching the LMB with artificial lures.

The positives are that adjustments will be easy to fix by stocking additional LMB a few at a time, very low fish food usage, lower biomass, and no issues with high nutrient levels from fish waste. If the grand kids just want to catch CNBG, then the "jumpers" can always be fed by adding 1/8" pellets to the feeder, and accelerate their growth.

Bottom line, if the pond gets broken, it'll be easy to fix.

A couple of colorful CNBG
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Last edited by FireIsHot; 04/28/22 12:57 PM. Reason: crop pics

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Originally Posted by FireIsHot
I'm taking the opposite route by giving the stocked CNBG a year to spawn, and hopefully have 10's if not 100's of thousands of stunted CNBG fry and fingerlings. This fall, I'll stock another 100-200 3-4" CNBG from my hatchery pond. I'm up for our electroshocking next year, and will get it the last week of March, or the first week of April, and pull 15-20 female LMB out for neighbor's pond. If a male is accidentally stocked, then I would think the ravenous small CNBG would handle a LMB bed or two. Since 1/4" pellets are all that will be thrown to the small number of breeder sized CNBG, the YOY should have slow growth and hopefully be runts, and not outgrow the LMB gape.

[Linked Image]

That does sound like an excellent plan. Which means I don't understand why it is not done more often?

Your CNBG are very tall dorsal to ventral (correct term?), so they are difficult to swallow. I assume you raised them in a well-balance pond. If they get overpopulated in your neighbor's pond, they SHOULD be somewhat stunted. They will be thinner, but will stunting also make them less tall? (And therefore easier to swallow?)

You also say you can correct the BG overpopulation problem if it runs away. What is the weight/length of the LMB that can eat the BG just below the size of your broodstock? What age would those bass be, considering they will be getting "Texas" growth rates plus abundant BG forage of every size range?

It seems to me, that the LMB would get the explosive "early" growth rate, like in a heavy FHM pond, but then also get the explosive "middle" growth rate due to the overabundance of BG.

I guess my basic question is, would that plan result in a superior LMB fishery (which goals?) more assuredly than starting the LMB earlier and trading "time" for "growth rate".

Thanks to AL or anyone else who replies,
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There's a really good chance of growing double digit LMB in as little as 4 years or so with that plan. I am in agreement with your thoughts and I am looking forward to seeing this fishery progress.


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This is just observation stuff, so others chime in.

Rod, the pie plate CNBG are the more mature ones. I've never see 4-6" CNBG here that are round, but I have seen bigger ones that aren't either. Here at least, the 7-9" CNBG are rarely eaten or targeted by the LMB, and I do think it's partly because of the height of the fish is growing along with the length. We specifically pulled CNBG that we felt were safe, and had a much lower chance of being eaten. Historically, the LMB we pull out during electroshocking are 15" and below, and 4-6" CNBG seems to be their sweet spot. I'm guessing the 15" LMB are 2-3 years old.

I'm not sure it would result in a better fishery, but I do think it will be an easier one to manage. If the initial LMB numbers are limited, and feeder observation lets you know how many large CNBG are coming to feed, and have those numbers changed, then I think the benefit of tons of runts will outweigh fewer LMB.


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After adding 120# GSH Tuesday, added 100# TP today. Tons of algae, so they should do well. I've learned to tolerate large algae blooms early in the year, as they seem to help the fry and YOY survive. When TP are stocked, algae tends to wane pretty quickly.

Electro survey was encouraging. Relative weight was a below average 81 last fall, now up to average 90. I could see that even the smaller bass had more weight, though most had already spawned. Top LMB over 6#, another over 5. Biggest CNBG 1.6, the largest I've ever seen up close & personal. Should hit the magic 2# mark next year! Also a 7# class HSB which they released quickly rather than stressing it by keeping for exact measurement.

Keys to improvement seem to be A) survival & flourishing of TFS which feed the smaller LMB & HSB; B) increased LMB harvest last year, over 300 removed; and C) heavy liming last fall, resulting in a better bloom with fertilization this year. Water viz was excellent, around 18 - 20 inches, instead of the usual too clear 3 to 4 feet. Perhaps this contributed to seeing far fewer injuries from herons.

Needed encouragement after sticker shock from fish feed, so good to see better results. Neither cormorants nor geese on scene, though ducks and a bald eagle flew around. This time I managed to stay in the boat, no diving allowed!


7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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Boy Scouts are coming to fish pond for merit badges again this year. Hopefully remove bass , catfish and bg for their merit badges. They will be here next weekend. Wish them good fishing!

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Boy scouts are coming to our property for orienteering, ticks, and poison ivy.

I think they are going to have more fun at your pond!

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