Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Wild Flower Farm, JiminKY, patricjohn150, Jon Mees, NEOHIO
17,525 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics39,300
Posts533,848
Members17,525
Most Online3,583
Jan 15th, 2020
Top Posters
esshup 25,975
ewest 20,798
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 13,894
Who's Online Now
7 members (Jon Mees, CityDad, Stressless, jpsdad, RStringer, Dilley, Quarter Acre), 191 guests, and 114 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 9
O
OP Offline
O
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 9
We had a dam breach due to topping of the dam following a major flood a couple years ago and are in the process of repairing the dam. In the past all of our dams have been built by experienced excavators and have not been professionally engineered. For this repair we decided to do it right and have it engineered. I feel the engineer has provided a very conservative and good design but we are having difficulty meeting one spec he is unwilling to relax. The water level behind the dam is controlled to 10 ft depth by a 36 inch down tube feeding a 36 inch through tube at the base of the dam. The down tube and through tube are corrugated galvanized steel and the through tube has two bentonite seep collars over its length. The pipe is supported by a preformed concrete block at the down pipe end. The issue we have is meeting the compaction specification for the soil supporting the pipe. The engineer has specified 95% compaction beneath the pipe. The soil being used comes from offsite and has been tested to verify it can achieve 95% compaction. The first attempt at achieving 95% compaction failed due to excessive moisture. The second attempt ranged from 92% to 94% with the engineer attributing the out of spec compaction on too little moisture. I am aware of the critical part of moisture in achieving compaction and the exactness required to achieve 95%. Winter set in before a third try could be attempted. We are now a year behind in schedule and with all the work trying to achieve 95% compaction and the cost of having an engineering company come out to verify the compaction our budget is hurting. My question is: is 95% compaction necessary under the pipe and if not what is sufficient?

Any insight and/or source of data on this issue will be appreciated.


If you don't care where you are you ain't lost. OMB
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,032
Likes: 48
D
Moderator
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Lunker
D
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,032
Likes: 48
Bo, I don't know anything about % of compaction. However, I don't like the idea of through the dam pipes. Look into a siphon system. It doesn't mess with the integrity of the dam.

Welcome to PB.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,361
Likes: 8
J
Offline
J
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,361
Likes: 8
I think the corrugated galvanized pipe will eventually rust through, causing major problems. Why not use the corrugated double wall plastic?

It would be hard to tell the difference between 92-94% and 95% compaction. Some professional engineers have become too liability averse to be practical IMO.
I don't like anything through the dam below normal water level.

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 887
Likes: 3
B
Offline
B
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 887
Likes: 3
Check into aluminized pipe or plastic pipe. NO clue on compaction.


1.8 acre pond with CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB
Trophy Hunter feeder.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,623
Likes: 22
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,623
Likes: 22
Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
Bo, I don't know anything about % of compaction. However, I don't like the idea of through the dam pipes. Look into a siphon system. It doesn't mess with the integrity of the dam.

Welcome to PB.


I agree 100%


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


Joined: May 2016
Posts: 9
O
OP Offline
O
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 9
Thanks for the replies and thoughts.

A few additional notes:
We have a total of 7 lakes using galvanized steel through pipes with some over 40 years old. Estimated life on such pipes is 40 years and the first point of failure is typically collapse of the down pipe where it enters the lake bottom and secondly rust through on the top of the through pipe, due to condensation, resulting in collapse. At this point the down pipes are looking OK. I suggested various plastic pipe solutions be considered along with the traditional galvanized steel to the engineer but he chose the galvanized steel and offered good reasoning. We recognize that at some point in the near future we will be replacing the old pipes when they fail. Hopefully, with enough time between failures to repair only one lake at a time. This new pipe should give us another 40 years on this lake.

The dam that failed did not fail due to the through pipe, in fact the through pipe was still in place after the water receded.

State water regulations for ponds of our type require they include a means of draining the lake. This essentially mandates a through pipe with a gate.

Keep your thoughts coming. Still need an answer to compaction under the through pipe.

Bo


If you don't care where you are you ain't lost. OMB
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 25,975
Likes: 178
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 25,975
Likes: 178
If you have enough fall behind the dam, a siphon pipe will do the trick for you. It can be used to automatically turn on and off to keep a lake at a certain height, and if the siphon is started, then the air break is capped, it will drain the lake.

A siphon will move more water than a thru dam pipe given the same diameter, so a siphon can be downsized over a thru-dam pipe. Plus you set it up to take out the anoxic water from the bottom of the lake, helping the water quality.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,361
Likes: 8
J
Offline
J
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,361
Likes: 8
Some engineers cannot think outside their box. Time to hire a new engineer?


Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Recent Posts
pond finally cleared up! Behavior change?
by Dilley - 12/04/21 03:24 PM
Digging a pond in west-central MO.
by CrazyCarl - 12/04/21 02:50 PM
Is stunting size predictable from stocking rate?
by Bill Cody - 12/04/21 02:40 PM
2.25 SA pond - build a fishery
by Stressless - 12/04/21 10:26 AM
Spotted Gar as a Size Selective Predator
by FishinRod - 12/04/21 09:36 AM
Washout around exit pipe on new pond... what to do
by Stressless - 12/04/21 09:11 AM
Happy Birthday highflyer!
by highflyer - 12/04/21 08:17 AM
DD1 is a birthday boy
by Pat Williamson - 12/03/21 08:05 PM
Core trench and elevation question
by Wild Flower Farm - 12/03/21 06:43 PM
Is this true or a yarn?
by Theo Gallus - 12/03/21 06:20 PM
Stand Pipe Drain Question...
by FishinRod - 12/03/21 11:46 AM
Newly Uploaded Images
Coyote on Deer Opening Day
Coyote on Deer Opening Day
by Theo Gallus, November 29
New Old Pond v3
New Old Pond v3
by HTNFSH2, November 19
Tilapia indoors and out
Tilapia indoors and out
by highflyer, September 29
Naiad vs chara?
Naiad vs chara?
by marlin304, September 26
spreading bentonite
spreading bentonite
by Guppy1, September 20
Hurricanes and wildlife 1
Hurricanes and wildlife 1
by Stressless, September 1

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5