Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Raising Forage and Bait Self sustaining shiner forage pond

Hey guys I apologize if this has been covered but I swear the search function hates working for me.

Being in the excavation business digging a hole is not that big of a deal for me. Since the price of GSH is so expensive I was considering building a forage pond for them. This leads me to a few questions.

How deep should it be for them to survive a northern Illinois winter?

If I were looking to get approx. 200# per year to stock in the pond how large would it have to be? Looking to make it a self sustaining system.

What other things should I consider when making this decision?

I appreciate all the help!

Does self sustaining mean with or without artificial fertilization above what the natural soils will provide? GSH may not be all that expensive compared to the cost of labor for harvest and general pond maintenance. One could be busy operating your business or working overtime which would result in plenty of money to buy 200 lbs of shiner.

This takes us back to why you want 200lbs of GSH. Is it to feed predators or to sell shiners? If it is to feed predators your pond is likely out of predator-prey balance management if it needs 200 lbs of forage added annually to sustain the predator base. Supplimentally adding 200 lbs of forage annually can soon lead to an even more unbalanced predator heavy ecosystem that relies more each year on more forage pounds to sustain more predator pounds. This puts the pond on a spiraling cycle and on the verge of a fish kill. Be prepared.

To effectively search for topics on this forum go to your server - search tool such as Google or Bing. Type in Pond Boss forum and your topic. It should provide numerous links. Example Pond Boss forum golden shiner growing or GSH raising.

We can provide info but need to address your situation.
Many sources of "purchased" GSH have a condition that soon limits reproduction. See this for general info.


http://articles.extension.org/pages/58702/golden-shiners

http://libinfo.uark.edu/aas/issues/1974v28/v28a11.pdf


https://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm/getFactSheet/whichfactsheet/204/

What condition?

"Many sources of "purchased" GSH have a condition that soon limits reproduction."

Pleistophora ovarie infects golden shiner ovaries, reducing egg production. Egg masses appear discolored, opaque, yellow or brown instead of light green. Treatments for these diseases have not been developed and prevention requires culling of infected fish and disinfection of ponds. Pleistophora infections may be reduced by removing golden shiner females from brood fish ponds after two years of age.


http://aqfi.uaex.edu/grad/gradlife/thesis/pdf/proposal2.pdf

Ovipleistophora ovariae infects the ovaries and renders older fish sterile (Summerfelt 1994) forcing golden shiner farmers to use 1-year-old fish as breeders rather than more mature broodfish.

The presence of parasite spores in the ovary makes vertical transmission a likely mode.
Some researchers are confident that vertical transmission exists for O. ovariae, however they are unsure if it is transovarial (in the egg) or transovum (on the egg) (J. E. Smith, University of Leeds, personal communication).

so those big giant shiners I have been thinking might be the real baby makers are probably not. Best to have a young class of breeders it seems.

All mine came from wild sources, is it prevalent in wild fish as well as the mass farmed fish.

Does it effect other minnow species that might be in the pond?

So stocking purchased golden shiners as forage may not work out so well?

I'm not so sure all the GSH are poor forage species as forage fish due to the ovarian parasite. There is a SMB-RES-YP-GSH pond near me that I help them manage. This pond has had a resident population of GSH in it for 27 years. So I conclude the parasite has not eliminated reproduction of the GSH in this pond. Density of the GSH may have an influence on the "intensity" of the parasite. I have never dissected any of the GSH and examined the ovary for parasites. I'm not sure I would recognize the ovary of a GSH. Anyone here ever done that??

GSH are a good forage source but may not be sustainable. It all depends. It seems that farm raised are more likely to have the problem which is passed on by vertical transmission. The link has lots of info.

Mine were bought from a bait store.

My GSH came from a bait shop, I only stocked 3 dozen when they were 2-1/2" to 3" long. I have had huge GSH spawns the last two years in a row without aquatic vegetation or spawning mats.

Glad to here of your success. I may have to wet a line to see how mine are doing. Not sure if I can tell the species of little fish I see from shore.

ewest, are you talking about the problem that manifests itself in older GSH that reduces their spawning fecundity?

There is a local lake (365 acres) that has had GSH in it for years and years, probably due to bucket stocking of leftover minnows.

In my pond, there is not enough cover for them to escape LMB predation, even the adults at 9"-10" in length. They don't last a year.