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#431315 12/11/15 04:26 PM
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... finally found one I like for the chainsaw.


The little valve works nice! No drips!!


Fill up these little cans that work nice for filling the chainsaw.


This Old White Oak made me nervous, but it's finally down. Stihl MS310, 20" yellow chain.

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That should make some firewood!


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Wow thats a big tree stump. Soft Maple or cotton wood?

Just putting in a set of rings in my stihl 210. Only had 50 psi of compression.


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The mighty oak bites the dust. Wow!

Was there a length of trunk worth saving for lumber?

I have a tree I need to take down not quite that big. How do you go about splitting those big slices into firewood? By hand?


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White Oak.

Still a bunch more to cut and split from that tree, but have ~ 6 full cord from that one split and stacked. Bunch more to go tho, but ain't doing any more this year.

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Originally Posted By: Bill D.
The mighty oak bites the dust. Wow!

Was there a length of trunk worth saving for lumber?

I have a tree I need to take down not quite that big. How do you go about splitting those big slices into firewood? By hand?


Older tree and about only good for firewood.

By hand, not a chance! My brother splits a bunch that way. Sister has a 35 ton log splitter we used.

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JKB,
I bought one of those new gas cans for my father in law. I liked the design where the jug can be tipped over the hole without spilling, and the valve can be used to let it out slowly as needed. The valve claims to have a system engineered in it so that it will automatically shut off if the valve senses fluid coming up the tube. This means you could put it in a small engine fill tube and just let er rip and it will stop on its own when full. I haven't tested that feature but that would be handy!

They sure jacked up the price on those cans due to those fancy valves though!

Also, do you know why people would buy those metal cans of premixed gas and oil? Is it a better product? or people don't feel comfortable mixing their own anymore? I look at those on the shelf and have no idea why they sell those!

Nice weather for cutting wood for December though!

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Originally Posted By: canyoncreek


Also, do you know why people would buy those metal cans of premixed gas and oil? Is it a better product? or people don't feel comfortable mixing their own anymore? I look at those on the shelf and have no idea why they sell those!

Nice weather for cutting wood for December though!


I'm with you on those little cans of gas but I guess I can see it for a guy that needs to run his chainsaw a couple hours a year to clean up a downed limb. Why have a gallon or two of mixed gas sitting around getting old.

I am hoping to get out next week to cut some wood. Forecast is for up to 3 inches of rain this weekend and 60 degrees but temp is supposed to drop back to normal high 20's for next week so I'm hoping the ground will firm up some.


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I scrounged a few of the old type (1990's) plastic gas containers and use a funnel to avoid spills. We have a nearby station that sells non ethanol gasoline. I put stabil in that.

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They also have those little cans of fuel without the oil, for four cycle use. It contains no alcohol, is often a higher octane than regular unleaded, and is supposed to stay fresh for a longer period of time. Here's a bigger container:

http://www.zoro.com/vp-small-engine-fuel...mp;gclsrc=aw.ds


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
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A question on octane Spark since you brought it up. I have been told high octane fuel has an advantage in high compression engines but you are basically throwing your money away purchasing high octane for engines that are not high performance. True?

Last edited by Bill D.; 12/11/15 08:52 PM.

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Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
JKB,
I bought one of those new gas cans for my father in law. I liked the design where the jug can be tipped over the hole without spilling, and the valve can be used to let it out slowly as needed. The valve claims to have a system engineered in it so that it will automatically shut off if the valve senses fluid coming up the tube. This means you could put it in a small engine fill tube and just let er rip and it will stop on its own when full. I haven't tested that feature but that would be handy!

They sure jacked up the price on those cans due to those fancy valves though!

Also, do you know why people would buy those metal cans of premixed gas and oil? Is it a better product? or people don't feel comfortable mixing their own anymore? I look at those on the shelf and have no idea why they sell those!

Nice weather for cutting wood for December though!


CC - I really like this design for a can you can lay over like this with no leaks. Not sure if it has a fill stop mode tho, but another handle on the back side would make it nice.

Got this one at TSC in Fremont, and it was a bit more than a standard rig, but thought I would give it a try. I like it!

I bought the higher octane premix to fire my chainsaws up after sitting for a few years. After that, went to 93 in the red can.

Be careful if you buy pre-mix in the cans, because that stuff evaporates sitting on the shelf in the stores, and may end up with much less than you thought you purchased.

That little Jonesred can I posted is really sweet tho. Fills easily with no mess, and pours easily as well. Little gizmo under the cap that makes this work well. It was worth the 8 bucks.

If I get ambitious, may just go cut the rest of that Oak up into 12' chunks and stack it on some pine rails.

Have a nice fireplace and wood stove in the house, but dad's lungs are shot, so it's paying for propane.

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Essentially, yes. Octane is a measure of gasoline's resistance to detonation. Octane in and of itself, does not provide a horsepower increase. Higher octane fuel does allow an engine builder to utilize techniques and components that produce higher horsepower, however.

And, compression ratios on small engines are slowly creeping up, so higher octane fuel is making a showing. In addition, higher octane fuel is more likely to be ethanol free....and that's a huge plus where small engines are concerned.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Thanks Sparkie! Next time I see a guy with a rusty 1976 Pinto pumping high octane into his buggy at the gas station I can confidentaly say, "It ain't gonna help!" grin


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Had a couple Cuda's that would pull the front wheels off the ground launching from a stop light. Torco racing fuel. Fun times, but expensive!!!

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Tony, I'm not understanding the "resistance to detonation". How does that work?

$75 for a 5 gallon can of gas? PT Barnum would love that. There is a convenience store in Bowie that sells non ethanol at only a slightly higher price. I buy it for my saws and yard equipment. Or, they say it is non ethanol. I was told by an old time tractor mechanic that if I pour some corn syrup gas into a jar and set it in the sun that I could see the stuff separate. I haven't tried it.


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Dave, Corn syrup gas?? I thought that stuff made from corn syrup was made for drinking, Corn liquor moonshine? High Octane, creates a blue flame or so i have been told smile

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Originally Posted By: John F
I scrounged a few of the old type (1990's) plastic gas containers and use a funnel to avoid spills. We have a nearby station that sells non ethanol gasoline. I put stabil in that.


I'm with you! I have been scrounging old gas cans for years. Hard to believe the feds could possibly regulate a gas can but the epa did frown I consider the non vented cans a serious safety and spillage issue (forget about freedom). Seeing as I spill more gas with non vented cans than I did with a vented, more chance of getting gas where I don't want it. Forget about trying to pour fuel from odd positions, all but impossible with non vented cans.

http://lfb.org/how-government-wrecked-the-gas-can/

Can't lie though, I do kind of like this can below. Same idea as the OP's can, convenience in pouring.


http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200422211_200422211?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Fuel%20Transfer%20%2B%20Lubrication%20%3E%20Fuel%20Nozzles&utm_campaign=Flo%20n%2C%20go&utm_content=169476&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=169476&gclid=Cj0KEQiAqK-zBRC2zaXc8MOiwfIBEiQAXPHrXtXXkShDw45257JvlIhLLJP1r-zlKu_pwCjM4d9W8XAaAqWz8P8HAQ

Last edited by timshufflin; 12/12/15 07:49 AM.

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Originally Posted By: Bill D.
A question on octane Spark since you brought it up. I have been told high octane fuel has an advantage in high compression engines but you are basically throwing your money away purchasing high octane for engines that are not high performance. True?


Back when I was in high school around 1969 or so, I has a Honda 175 motorcycle. I could tell the difference in gas quality by its top end speed. The engine and its size and horsepower seemed very sensitive to different grades of gasoline. At the time the very best performer (and I checked performance often grin was Texaco Sky Chief (I think that was its name for its premium gas). Next best was Skelly premium. At the time we still used a number of gas tractors on the farm and Skelly dealer was our tank gas supplier (regular of course). I remember discussing my motorcycle results with him and at that time he told me that Skelly regular was 98+ octane. That was regular. I forget what permium was.

So that gives a comparison of then and now. 98 octane for regular back then where even premium does not get there now.

Used to have a couple of Dodge cars in the family, both 318's. My brother kept very good gas mileage records for quite a while when he was driving back and forth to school. In that particular car at that time the mileage he got from premium increased enough in mileage to just offset the higher cost. He ran premium all the time because not only did he gain enough mileage to pay for it, anyone who ran a car in that era knows that if you set the timing according to spec, engines would pre-detonate or knock under heavy acceleration. The premium did not do it. I always retarded the timing on the 318's just enough so they did not knock everytime you stepped down on the accelerator (had several of the engines over the years in cars, pickups and one big truck). I remembered the movie we watched in auto mechanics class of what happens to pistons under prolonged periods of pre-detonation.

My point is, the very best gas we can buy at the pump today is not even close to what the cheapest gas was back then as far as octane rating. Fortunately computers can adjust timing today in modern engines to account for low fuel quality. I run premium in all motorcycles (some require it in the manual, some don't. I think wifes new Can-Am Spyder calls for it) as well as all small engines. The cars and pickups get the cheap stuff.

Ethanol today is primarily used as an oxygenate. The refineries can produce higher levels of other fuels (like Diesel) by changing the crack spread to favor them and this results in lower octane gasoline. The high octane of the ethanol is then uses to upgrade this low octane gasoline to minimum standards of 86 or 87. By using ethanol, the refinery can increase yield of higher value products thus increasing profitability.

The thing I hate about any of the new cans is the flimsy safety spout will break in six months or a year, rendering the high cost jug almost useless. Very hard to find replacement spouts with the right thread. We keep at least a dozen gas cans around at any one time to refuel welders, compressors, pumps etc. Gets rather expensive to replace them when they don't last yet the jug itself is almost indestructible. Not counting the ones that blow out the back of pickup/service trucks. Empty gas cans WILL blow out the back of service trucks. Over and over. My guys are not as careful as I am about that because the replacement does not come out of their pocket. frown

Last edited by snrub; 12/12/15 08:40 AM.

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Detonation is an uncontrolled or extremely rapid expansion of the flame front inside the combustion chamber. Ideally, you want the air-fuel mixture to ignite via the spark plug, and have the flame front expand and move evenly throughout the combustion chamber, reaching a point of maximum cylinder pressure just as the piston starts down the cylinder on the power stroke.

When detonation occurs, this smooth expansion is interrupted by a portion of the air-fuel mixture igniting ahead of the approaching flame front, due to the increasing temps and pressure. Similar to how a diesel relies on the heat of cylinder pressure to ignite the diesel fuel. Now you have two flame fronts expanding simultaneously, and when they collide you get that ringing noise characteristic of detonation.

Since high compression ratios produce greater power and are simple to manufacture, manufacturers like to employ extra squeeze to try and wring as much oomph out of their engines as they can. The limiting factor has always been the fuel...too low of an octane, and the fuel pre-ignites, defeating the purpose. Higher octane fuels are more resistant to self ignition due to heat and pressure, so they allow for the greater compression ratios resulting in more power.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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To expand on what snrub wrote, if an engine is experiencing detonation, higher octane fuels will likely result in better mileage/power. If detonation is not occurring, there will be no mileage/power increase due to switching fuel.

Alcohol is hygroscopic, and will "attract" water. This doesn't mean you can set an unopened gas can outdoors overnight and gain an extra gallon of liquid in the morning, but yes it will phase separate and can leave your fuel container with a layer of gasoline sitting on a layer of alcohol/water, if allowed to sit undisturbed for a long enough period of time. Two cycle engines often use a weighted fuel filter in their fuel tanks, to allow for all orientation usage. Think chainsaws, and how they are turned several ways during operation. If your saw has been sitting, and you grab it up and go, that weighted fuel line may be sitting in pure alcohol, with no lubrication whatsoever. IF you can get it to start that way, a scored cylinder/piston combination is likely the result. Usually they won't start, however.

When you pick up your gas cans or saws, give em' a shake before putting them to use.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Why they can get such huge horspower out of ethanol engines. High octane equals the ability to use high compression and the alcohol also runs cooler.

If engines could be made to be run only on E85, there could be some excellent ethanol engines. Problem is they also have to run on plain old gasoline so they have to be de-tuned to run on either.

Many people mistakenly think BTU is the only measure of a fuels ability to produce horsepower. But an alcohol engine built for alcohol can produce drastically more horsepower (albeit while using more fuel).

I for one like Ethanol. I think it is a vast improvement to using the oxygenates that have now been outlawed because of environmental concerns. Brazil has run high levels of alcohol for years (although they would not have cold weather starting issues like we might have in northern latitudes).


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I think alcohol is a great alternative when it is NOT produced from food stocks. But when you factor in the emissions concerns created by the agriculture needed to grow those food stocks, it's not as clean as some believe. And yes, I believe you need half again as much alcohol compared to gasoline to produce the same amount of energy?


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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I will throw an interesting note in here. Two years ago I learned you cannot use premium fuel in your saw at high altitude. My buddy and I were planning on doing a ton of cutting in Colorado and brought our saws and 93 fuel from GA and his from IA. We just could not keep the saws running. They were new Stihls with the intellicarb and would only run for a couple minutes and then would stop and wouldn't restart. Like they had run out of fuel. Open the fuel tank to check and gas would actually overflow out of the hole somehow. Finally after a couple days we went to town thinking the saws had a problem. We talked to the Stihl guy and he said we were boiling the gas!! He said you can't use high octane up there and said even low octane could have problems that high (10,000'+). He told us we needed AV Gas (which was confusing because AV Gas is even higher octane) or that fuel in the metal cans. We tracked some AV Gas down and never had another problem. I have run AV Gas in most of my stuff ever since, especially at the cabin. No need for stabil in it. Those saws, weedeaters, generators, etc can sit up there 10 months with AV Gas and it will start right up like you just left it yesterday.


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Tim good article thanks for posting. Just yesterday I went to sears looking for a gas can with a vent. I was thinking surely they'll have a decent can. Seeing as how the cheap 5 gallon can I bought from Walmart was not vented and the plastic spout fell off as I was trying to pour, causing gas to go all over except in my riding mower. It's been more than a few years since I've been in the market for a gas can so I had no idea the EPA had found another way to jack us around.

By the way the can that you linked too at Northern Tool, with the gas pump looking spout...terrible reviews. Seems the pump stops working after just a few uses. On a good note that 5 gallon "water" can they have, with a vent, looks like a great deal. If you're in the market for a water can, that is:-)

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