Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Questions; SMB, YP, Frogs & Cameras

Hello everyone
Over the days a lot of questions come to mind that I hope will create a good discussion for us to help me and everyone else.

First off I've been doing some googling and can't seem to find a camera... I'm interested in one similar to a deer/trail camera with motion sensor that I could place in my lake maybe 5 to 15' deep. I haven't been able to find any maybe one of you know if anyone has one?

Now a couple questions about fish. Ever since I took my trip in June to michigan, I have wanted to add a light. First I wanted to stick a pole in the ground in 5 or 6 feet of water off the weeds to attract bugs close to the water with hopes perch learn and start eating them. Now I am thinking a better way to go would be to mount it to a floating island, with grasses and shelter for frogs. I am most likely leaning towards SMB either in the spring or next fall (not 100%). Would this help the frogs? I think the light would attract the bugs, the bugs will attract the frogs, the frogs must swim back and forth between the island and the land and get eaten by the bass? There is no shortage of frogs. There is about a 12-15 acre swamp 50 ft from the lake that every 5' you can find at least 1 frog.(as of right now the other forage for SMB would be YOY YP and potentially crayfish)

Another question is, is there any correlation/research that shows pond A with untouched zooplankton levels compared to pond B with moderately heavy added zooplankton during the spawn/hatching with survival rates of YOY YP?

I think if zooplankton is capable of thriving in your pond it already is ...adding them will not help much..maybe fertilize ?

I dont know much about feritizing.

I have read if you feed on a regular basis it will help make your water more fertile....I seem to have a mild green tint in mine that i never had bepfore I fed.

You do make a good point about the feeding. It seems that would be a better way to go whether the YP learn to eat it and create more organic matter for the plankton/bottom feeders or don't eat it it will still add good nutrients to the pond that couldn't hurt anything to much. I just thought if you add a bunch of zooplankton that the fry will have a better chance to grow bigger before getting eaten by whatever predator I decide.

Call Dan Laggis in Gobles, MI for feed trained YP. Stock 'em, get a TH feeder and feed a good quality fish food.

Dan said he has all his SMB sold. I MAY have another source for more SMB this Fall, but the owner knows how rare they've become. On a side note, today someone approached me in a Sam's Club parking lot while I had my fish trailer attached. Nothing new since almost every stop, people ask what I'm hauling. But this time, the guy said he bought a fish farm with 26 brood ponds, a lake and home with 2 large sorting/holding buildings. He has no plans to operate the farm and only bought the place to duck hunt on. We are going out this weekend to look at it and He'd like me to operate and maintain the place for only a small cut of profit. If that is the case, there will be SMB in the Midwest next fall! The farm is only an hour and a half from me in south central Missouri and has been unused, yet all ponds full, for the last 16 years.

I have some SMB left, was considering caging them for experiment next year, but if Rex wants to come get them, I'll part with some BG Assassins.

As of right now I do not plan to stock SMB this fall, looking towards 2016. I would like to confirm that I have a solid forage base along with good structure before I stock a predator. That sounds awesome rainman! Good luck on that adventure. Can someone elaborate on why stock SMB during the fall instead of early spring? Tomorrow I start my journey north to Michigan. It's my 21st birthday Monday so this weekend we are celebrating. My celebration will consist of fishing, trapping, getting the water quality tested by a lab along with a secchi disk, building structure (pretty cool plan for a log crib, pics will be up sometime this weekend) relaxing and exploring. A couple friends have asked why I'm not going to Vegas for my 21st... I'd rather be on the lake and in the woods!

I am going to add 10, 3-6" SMB this weekend even though I have not seen a YP spawn. I am hoping this will be enough to allow SMB offspring to populate as the forage grows.

SMB are purchased primarily in the fall because in the spring they are extremely hard to locate. Most farms sell out of SMB in the fall.
The zooplankton community increases and decreases based on the amount and type of phytoplankton including bacteria in the water. Newest fry eat primarily algae and rotifers as first food and over a few days begin eating small crustaceans such as immature copepods then later adult copepods and daphnia types.

Matt and I are working on a plan to have SMB hatching in the Spring. Keep your fingers crossed!

RAH, what would make you want to stock SMB when you dont think your YP spawned? I saw you have GSH and RES, did they spawn well? It also seems from the way you said it there is a problem with YP eating SMB offspring, is that true? Good luck with your SMB!

Bill, so instead of choosing fall because it's better for the fish we choose fall because that is when the YOY are ready to be sold by the farms? And I never knew that the fry starts off on the phytoplankton.. learn something new everyday.

Esshup, are they hard to reproduce? From what everyone has said it sounds like they are a good fish with a high demand but hard to reproduce. I actually never knew anything about them before coming here, all we have here in Florida are large mouth and a couple different sun fish. I think that may be why I love this lake in Michigan, it's a whole other world that I don't get here.

I am adding 10 SMB earlier in a 1 acre pond to save money by allowing them to reproduce. I have a lot of small fish, but suspect they are FHM. I think that big fish eat small fish.

They are a hit or miss proposition for reproduction. I have some brood stock and we think we can guarantee reproduction.

What do you mean by "hit and miss"? I have arrangements on the SMB already, but if they do not reproduce in the pond, I am not sure if my plan is sound.

I don't think they spawn as reliably as LMB.

re: Your pond where they will spawn, you have spawning areas for them, right? How do you plan on getting the YOY out of the pond once they spawned?

I have willing fishermen and women that can be relied upon to remove the species, numbers, and sizes that I request. The trick is for me to request the right thing. For example, I have had 50 to 60 BG removed from my 1 acre pond per year. The LMB population is still OK since the fish kill a few years back, but once I have too many, I will try to come up with the right slot limit to request for them. The BG seemed to come back much faster.

PS. The SMP/YP pond has piles of rocks.

Amen to that!

Richard, you have so many exciting pond and wildlife years ahead of you!

Happy early 21st birthday!

(man, that seems sooooo long ago! )

RAH if you have LMB in the pond that receives the smallmouth IMO and experience you will not get any recruitment from the smallies. SMB without LMB present will readily spawn in most pond when a good forage community is present. Better spawns occur with crayfish in the forage community.

I thought fisheries milked their brood stock for reproduction purposes...no??

Sean

Most do not. They have ponds that they "seed" with brood fish and let nature take care of it. At least with the pure strain fish. The hybrids are a different story.

Bill - I have 2 separate 1 acre ponds. The older pond has FHM, BG, RES, and LMB. It originally had CC, but they appear to be gone (and I am glad). The newer pond has YP, GSH, papershell crayfish, hopefully some LCS (only put in 12), and will have 10 SMB today. I would also like to add shrimp if I can find a source, and may need GC depending on the weed situation after everything starts to mature (lots of submerged weeds now). This pond will also have the water level raised a total of 12" gradually over the next few years as marginal plants and bald cypress grow. I have received the message "loud and clear" on not expecting SMB to persist with LMB in a small pond. I greatly respect the knowledgeable of folks on this forum, like you, who offer up great advice on pond management. My goals are a bit different than some, in that I want to set up the ponds for low maintenance except for harvesting fish that help push the balance toward big top predators. I also maintain a "natural" edge. I hope to add 2 more ponds as funds allow. One will be an experiment to see if I can get walleye to breed. The other would be a CP pond if I can find any.

FWIW I asked Keystone this question yesterday and this is what they do.

Just released the SMB from Clear Creek. The fish looked great! They seemed a bit confused by the weed mat though. Maybe it was the trip, or maybe just a more complex environment compared with what they were accustomed to. They just sat where we released them. Plenty of energy though when prodded. They dove into the weeds. Hope that they can find their way out OK.

I've had good luck with Clear Creek fish myself.