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Just finished building my 1.2 surface acre pond about three weeks ago. Heavy rains last week has pond over half full.

Pond is 24 ft deep at the damn. Has lots of structure left in during construction. Large stumps rolled back in as well as large 4 ft creek channel. Pond has nice spring feeding it that runs all year long. Approx 7 gallons a minute in August and as many as 30 in Winter.

I have two opportunities to buy from a fish truck next weekend within 30 miles.

1st is fish truck from Arkansas on next Friday.
2nd is fish truck from seponds on next Saturday

My goal:

Take a kid fishing and catch some real good action:
I'd like to manage by stocking mostly hybrids. Have no problem restocking what we catch and keep, but will rarely keep the fish.

Want
Hybrid Stiped Bass.
Hybrid Largemouth F! (maybe)
Hybrid Bluegill
Hybrid Crappie.
Fall stocking of some Rainbow trout for early spring catching for my dad. These will be table fare for him.

No Catfish

Can anyone help me with stocking numbers?

Should I throw regular bluegill and shellcracker in there for bait?

Minnows?

Should I buy all this fall or wait till next Spring for the predator fish?

I do plan to pellet feed all year long.

I will aerate the pond before summer next year.

Sorry for all the questions, but this pond has been my dream since I was a kid and I want to get this right.

Thanks

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Saboelte,

No expert here! I am sure some smart people will be with you soon. But, even with pellet feeding, I would stock a forage base of fh or another kind of minnow. Shellcrackers or res are great for parasite control and fun to catch. Hbg and hbc will both reproduce as will f1 lm as far as I know, so angling control or predator control is important or you can end up with hungry, stunted fish or, worse, O2 crash from too much biomass. Your aeration should enable you to keep more fish healthy than if you had no aeration.

I love your fish diversity though, do you know people that would eat some cull fish of lm and bc? Lm and maybe bc are not easily pellet trained, but some have done it. Minnows are good for the smaller ones. the offspring of bg and other fishes will make up large parts of the diet once they get a bit bigger.

Catfish are certainly not imperative! Do you have any drainage from other bodies of water that could cause other fish species to be introduced? That type of thing (or bucket stocking) has caused many plans to go awry.

Maybe think about stocking some forage this fall, and add some predators next year?

Cmm


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The purity of fish from the fish truck is very questionable even the fathead minnows (FHM). Any FHM should be sorted to make sure there are no sunfish or bullheads present. To make sorting easier and quicker add some FHM now and some in spring with other fish.
I would add RES; some now and some later maybe next fall.

About the only hybrids fish in your plan that will be on the fish truck will be HBG. Truck my have RES but their purity without other sunfish species mixed in is questionable. Focus your time this fall finding broken cement concrete to add for FHM spawn and small fish refuge areas. You also want to evaluate the pros and cons of golden shiner especially if you are using hyb crappie and HSB even with pellet feeding.
A few GSH posts from the forum
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=287910
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=115165#Post115165
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=287514
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=414028
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=403749

Hybrid crappie will be hard to locate in VA. Plan for it if you really want them. HSB will help a lot to control offspring of Hy crappie.

I assume you are not an expert at identifying small sunfish and verifying quality of hybrid fish. So - You are from VA so contact some very reputable fish farm types in your region that are associated with PBoss Forum. They deliver fish into VA and will get you dependable high quality fish. If they don't have the hybrids you want they can suggest the best place to get them or alternatives to your plan.
Dave Beasley Solitude Lake Management
Greg Grimes Aquatic Environmental Services
Southeast Pond Management

The only fish I would add this fall are the FHM and RES if you can find pure stock that does not have any unwanted species mixed in. Allow some time for a natural invertebrate and plankton food base to develop in the pond.

Note consider this - if you can find them, stock smallmouth bass instead of F1 LMB. LMB can always be added later if you want or need the fishery to go in a different direction by having increased predator pressure that LMB can provide. IMO the F1 LMB will not reach their full potential and be that much more beneficial than regular quality LMB pellet trained individuals with your current planned forage fish food base. Pellet trained regular LMB can quickly reach 4-5 lbs when managed properly. A high percentage of the offspring of pellet trained LMB will likely not resort to eating pellets.

Some reading from bass resource.
http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/forage_bass_stocking.html

Last edited by Bill Cody; 10/10/15 03:08 PM.

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Originally Posted By: saboelte
Just finished building my 1.2 surface acre pond about three weeks ago. Heavy rains last week has pond over half full.

Pond is 24 ft deep at the damn. Has lots of structure left in during construction. Large stumps rolled back in as well as large 4 ft creek channel. Pond has nice spring feeding it that runs all year long. Approx 7 gallons a minute in August and as many as 30 in Winter.

I have two opportunities to buy from a fish truck next weekend within 30 miles.

1st is fish truck from Arkansas on next Friday.
2nd is fish truck from seponds on next Saturday

My goal:

Take a kid fishing and catch some real good action:
I'd like to manage by stocking mostly hybrids. Have no problem restocking what we catch and keep, but will rarely keep the fish.

Want
Hybrid Stiped Bass.
Hybrid Largemouth F! (maybe)
Hybrid Bluegill
Hybrid Crappie.
Fall stocking of some Rainbow trout for early spring catching for my dad. These will be table fare for him.

No Catfish

Can anyone help me with stocking numbers?

Should I throw regular bluegill and shellcracker in there for bait?

Minnows?

Should I buy all this fall or wait till next Spring for the predator fish?

I do plan to pellet feed all year long.

I will aerate the pond before summer next year.

Sorry for all the questions, but this pond has been my dream since I was a kid and I want to get this right.

Thanks



First, a very big welcome to Pond Boss. You will get a lot of good suggestions. If you get bad suggestions, they will usually be challenged. So, be ready to average what you get, including what I'm about to post.

(Just as I posted this, I saw Bill Cody's post above. Bill is a very close personal friend who I greatly respect and have immensely learned from. He is far more experienced, and more educated in aquaculture than me. Again, take my "be ready to average what you get" before making a decision.)

My primary home is about 200 miles north of you, near Winchester, VA, abutting the WV/VA state line. I also have a home about 200 miles southeast of you, near Southport, NC. Weldon (Ralph's BBQ) is about halfway between.

I buy from both suppliers you mentioned. My first choice would be SE Pond Stockers, for several reasons. Although, IMO the Arkansas guys are pretty reputable too. My reason for going with SE Pondstockers is that they are almost local to you, and they mostly only do overnight trips. Their fish are in great shape when you get them, not that the Arkansas guys don't have some pretty good trucks. Nearly all of them get their stock from the same sources.

SE usually can provide hybrid striped bass if you call ahead. I don't believe that the Arkansas trucks are supplying striped bass.

I would not stock the hybrid crappie. To the best of my recent study about them, they are not true hybrids. They are not like the triploids that cannot reproduce. In my opinion (along with a little bit of science) they are almost as unpredictable as straight-run white or black crappie. You just don't know what effects they may have on your pond.

My notes below are based on feeding the pond with commercial fish food on a regular basis. My suggestions won't work if the pond is not fed with with supplemental feed.

Based on my comments above, I wouldn't stock minnows if you are planning on stocking the pond in the next couple of weeks. The minnows will be eaten by the other fish before they have a chance to eat and grow. Supplemental feed would bwe

With your goals, if your new 1.2 acre pond was mine to stock tomorrow, I would start with 25-50 hybrid striped bass, anywhere from 150-500 hybrid bluegill (probably tending toward the high end), and just a small number of large mouth bass -- maybe five, or none at all. If possible, I'd hold off on the largemouth bass.

I don't like to suggest "bucket stocking" but if you want to keep this as a put-and-take pond, you will have to very carefully select what goes into the pond. You wouldn't need very many largemouth to keep any recruitment from the hybrid bluegill under control. If you do choose largemouth bass, they should be stocked as a single sex so that they can't reproduce. The only reasonable method I know of for non-scientific sex determination of LMB is to squeeze them during spawning season. By squeezing them before spawning you will either see yellow eggs from a female, or white milt from a male.

The hybrid striped bass should be able to keep the hybrid bluegill under control.

I'm not sure why you ruled out channel catfish. As with all additions to a pond, everything has its issues. If it were my pond I'd give serious consideration to adding 10 to 25 4-6 inch channel cats instead of any largemouth bass. They too will help keep reproduction of the hybrid bluegill under control.

Especially for kids, the channel cats add excitement, they grow fast, and they are delicious. At a couple of pounds, they make good predators, along with hybrid striped bass, for unwanted recruitment (reproduction) of your hybrid bluegill. Just don't ever release a channel cat back into the pond, as they have very long memories about being hooked.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. One of my ponds is dedicated to kids and the elderly. It is by far the most fun ponds where anyone can sit in a chair, throw out a bait, and catch a fish within about 30 seconds. It might be a fat hybrid bluegill, a hybrid striped bass, or a channel catfish.

As for winter trout, I love them. Unfortunately, my experience with them in HBG/HSB ponds is that the HBG/HSB will grab a bait much quicker than a trout will grab it. My last two seasons with trout in our put-and-take HSB/HBG/CC pond has been quite disappointing because we could not fish the trout out of the pond.

If this is your first season stocking this pond, the trout will be much larger than the other fish, except possibly the HSB. The trout will look at the stock as delicious sushi.

We've had great success and fun with trout in our standard bluegill and largemouth bass pond. I really like to stock golden trout because they are so visible. They are just a variation of rainbow trout, but more colorful.

Lastly, the trout are a lot of fun whether you can catch them, or not. If you throw out floating fish food pellets, they will do all kinds of acrobatics attempting to grab even a very small pellet.

This is not scientific, but figure you will probably lose about 20-30 percent of all adult size fish every season due to natural causes.

Good luck. Don't be afraid to ask lots of questions in the next couple of days before you do any stocking.

As I think you mentioned, you will have to replenish such a pond on a regular basis -- probably spring and fall. Such a pond is an incredible experience for young, old, and in between.

Tonight's dinner, for friends and family, was a nice HSB and a reasonable sized CC from our put-and-take pond.

Ken

Last edited by catmandoo; 10/10/15 09:59 PM. Reason: additional comments

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Hi neighbor- just a hop and skip in Chase City area.
I will be looking for a few HSB next year as predator to keep the BG and RES numbers down but just stocked in spring so need to let everything grow a little first.
If my YP establish maybe we can do some swaps.
Perry minnow farm has RES and FHM and Rosie Reds to get you started. 2 hour drive.
They pack them well and I have only had two floaters since release.
Perry Minnow farm Windsor VA 757-539-1709 . Susan is Mr Perrys daughter and has taken over most of the operation but if you go you need to talk to Mr Perry . He doesn't get on the phone because like me he is hard of hearing. But when I picked up my forage minnows we yelled at each other for over an hour . The gentleman is a wealth of knowledge.

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Great informative post guys. I am averaging the info. Also great to find a neighbor or two here.

To answer a couple of questions above.

No threat of upstream fish entering the pond. The spring water comes out of the ground only about 100 yards above the pond.

Yes, I can easily find folks to catch and eat any fish that we feel are overpopulating.

Tom, We may have had the same pond guy. My guy's name was Tim??

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Couple of quick pics after last weeks more than 6 inches of rain. Timing was bitter sweet as we finished the day before and could not avoid the ditches that came with the rain, but have since repaired them. There are stumps as big as a volkswagon that are all ready covered up. Pond is also clearing up all ready and the water is looking good. Plan to check the PH this week before buying any fish.

Steve

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Originally Posted By: saboelte
Great informative post guys. I am averaging the info. Also great to find a neighbor or two here.

To answer a couple of questions above.

No threat of upstream fish entering the pond. The spring water comes out of the ground only about 100 yards above the pond.

Yes, I can easily find folks to catch and eat any fish that we feel are overpopulating.

Tom, We may have had the same pond guy. My guy's name was Tim??


Nope ours is Willie - there are lots of them because every Tobacco/Angus farm has a pond every 25 acres- this area is loaded with ponds. Terrain is right and need is there so lots of them. Your lucky with the spring - this year because of extremely dry weather I was pumping from the well to keep up with evaporation and absorption. Being new pond this year the ground was soaking it up. I was full pool in Jan and even with this rain we are still down about a foot.
Lot of great info here and welcome aboard .

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That is going to be a real beaut! Keep us posted on the progress. Cmm


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Originally Posted By: saboelte
Couple of quick pics after last weeks more than 6 inches of rain. Timing was bitter sweet as we finished the day before and could not avoid the ditches that came with the rain, but have since repaired them. There are stumps as big as a volkswagon that are all ready covered up. Pond is also clearing up all ready and the water is looking good. Plan to check the PH this week before buying any fish.

Steve


Yep! never fails . When you want gentle rain to get the erosion control growing you get gully washers and reverse when you are waiting for full pool .

Its looking good.

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If the stumps are not anchored expect them to sooner or later float. Attached dirt will soon fall off the root ball allowing buoyancy.

As Catmandoo mentioned CC can be beneficial if you expect to regularly harvest and eat them otherwise IMO omit them for the first few years. Most CC also find a way to reproduce in a pond even if they have to dig their own small cave into the bank for a spawn cavity. Numerous CC can be a management problem if you don't have a good number of LMB which are great predators of small CC.

Considering what Catmandoo said about FHM you may not want to stock any fish this fall and use the time do better develop a stocking plan from intensive homework reading posts here and self-reflection of your ultimate goals. Consider stocking fish that will allow you to ultimately manage the pond for a bass-BG pond. Your original stocking plan sort of does this by stocking mostly hybrid 'species'. If the hybrids do not meet your goal then stock reproducing fish who will take the pond in that direction. A ample stocking of LMB will over time almost always trend the pond toward a LBbass dominated pond.

IMO your main concern is if to stock some form of regular reproducing BG. BG can always be added later but removing them once in the pond is almost impossible unless the whole pond is killed. If you decide to not initially use BG consider starting with some yellow perch as mentioned by your 'neighbor' FINnFUR. Contact him by Private message for his supply source. YP make a good panfish that grows to 2 lbs(15") and provides small slender body forage fish for all predators. HSB easily control YP and hy.crappie offspring. YP struggle with replacing their numbers in ponds when LMB are common. YP will work with HBG and HSB. Adult perch as with many pond fish will feed in fish fry (upto 1.5").

Last edited by Bill Cody; 11/10/15 11:14 AM.

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Just found out that Carolina Fish Hatchery will also have a truck close by me this weekend. Looks like I've got three choices.

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OK.......Tried searching for my answer, but could not find it.

Stocked several weeks ago when this thread was started.

500 bluegill
500 shellcracker
250 Hybrid bluegill
7 lbs of fathead minnow.

Question. These fish show no interest in the food that I throw them almost daily. It just floats until it sinks. What could they possibly be eating as this is a new pond? Are water temps to cold for the fish to eat? Do I keep throwing food in there throughout the winter as they may be eating it on the bottom?

Plan to put 250 more hybrid bluegill and 150 black crappie and another three pounds of fathead minnow in there on the 19th of this month

Largemouth and Hybrid Striped Bass in the Spring

Sound good?

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Hey Saboelte,

Couple of questions...

1) Did you stock pellet trained fish?
2) What is your water temp? My fish have slowed way down and I have stopped feeding for the year.
3) How long did you wait after your pond filled before you stocked? How long did it take to fill?

Last edited by Bill D.; 11/10/15 07:12 AM. Reason: Clarification

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saboelte- how big were the stocker fish? and how big are the pellets? Uneaten food will eventually decompose and grow filamentous 'string' algae.

I would call the hatchery where you got the fish and ask if they were pellet trained. I think if the fish were less than 3" long they were not pellet trained for very many months and are likely eating zooplankton in your pond or not eating much of anything due to a very new fresh filled pond condition with likely cloudy water from recent watershed runoff used for filling. The water is cooling toward winter conditions and fish eat a lot less in cooler water (less than 60F). If not eating they will struggle to go into the winter low food period in poor body condition. In your eagerness you really violated the "Forum's" first general rule of "Allow the newly built pond to produce a natural food source for several months before stocking fish". An April/May fish stocking would have been a lot wiser and productive in your particular case because a lot of natural foods (plankton & insect, invertebrate life) would have been produced between November and April. Plus in Spring natural foods are flourishing and expanding not decreasing as going into winter.

If you wanted fish in a hurry in this new pond, in my opinion, you should have bought the trout you mentioned in your first post. Trout can be larger and catchable, are always pellet trained, very eager to eat fish pellets, will quickly find the pellets, and do not need natural foods to grow well. Trout would have worked well in your brand new pond until the water got too warm in June-July. In the meantime natural foods would have had time to become established to feed stocker fish that would maintain the pond in the future.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 11/10/15 11:20 AM.

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Hey Saboelte,

Couple of questions...

1) Did you stock pellet trained fish?
2) What is your water temp? My fish have slowed way down and I have stopped feeding for the year.
3) How long did you wait after your pond filled before you stocked? How long did it take to fill?






Fish were not pellet trained when bought.

Not sure of water temp., but would guess about 62 on surface.

Pond filled up to current 3/4 full in about 2 1/2 months.


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Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
saboelte- how big were the stocker fish? and how big are the pellets? Uneaten food will eventually decompose and grow filamentous 'string' algae.

I would call the hatchery where you got the fish and ask if they were pellet trained. I think if the fish were less than 3" long they were not pellet trained for very many months and are likely eating zooplankton in your pond or not eating much of anything due to a very new fresh filled pond condition with likely cloudy water from recent watershed runoff used for filling. The water is cooling toward winter conditions and fish eat a lot less in cooler water (less than 60F). If not eating they will struggle to go into the winter low food period in poor body condition. In your eagerness you really violated the "Forum's" first general rule of "Allow the newly built pond to produce a natural food source for several months before stocking fish". An April/May fish stocking would have been a lot wiser and productive in your particular case because a lot of natural foods (plankton & insect, invertebrate life) would have been produced between November and April. Plus in Spring natural foods are flourishing and expanding not decreasing as going into winter.

If you wanted fish in a hurry in this new pond, in my opinion, you should have bought the trout you mentioned in your first post. Trout can be larger and catchable, are always pellet trained, very eager to eat fish pellets, will quickly find the pellets, and do not need natural foods to grow well. Trout would have worked well in your brand new pond until the water got too warm in June-July. In the meantime natural foods would have had time to become established to feed stocker fish that would maintain the pond in the future.


Bill, Thanks for the reply. Kinda contradicts your advise earlier in this thread, but I see where you are coming from. I'll keep reading

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Saboelte,

IMHO I think Bill C. would agree he is not saying all your new little fish are going to die over the winter. There is a risk, that IF there was not adequate planktonic life in the pond to prepare and now sustain the little fish over winter, there could be significant losses. I suspect, the strongest will scavenge the weakest to get by if that is the case. Is that necessarily a bad thing? In the spring you start with the strongest(best genetics?)of your stockers.

I would strongly consider not stocking more till spring though. Just my 2 cents...I wish you and your project great success. Please keep us posted.

Bill D.

Last edited by Bill D.; 11/10/15 08:16 PM. Reason: Clarification

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I'm not sure where I said IMO you can do a full panfish stocking before the pond is full. Here are some comments of my earlier advice from posts above:
1. "The only fish I would add this fall are the FHM and RES if you can find pure stock that does not have any unwanted species mixed in. Allow some time for a natural invertebrate and plankton food base to develop in the pond."
2. "Considering what Catmandoo said about FHM you may not want to stock any fish this fall and use the time do better develop a stocking plan from intensive homework reading posts here and self-reflection of your ultimate goals."

Last edited by Bill Cody; 11/10/15 08:33 PM.

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