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Re: Aquarium question
Bruce Condello #424147 09/17/15 08:33 AM
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Makes sense. We all know how sensitive redears can be to winter conditions. OTOH perhaps if there weren't too many morts you could come up with a line of redears that is coldwater resistent?

Just my opinion of course, but I think you're shorting yourself by not adding a couple of barrels for mechanical and bilogical filtration, and raising temps and feeding them. Less water to change for the few lbs. of fish you have and they will be healther. For only 50 lbs. of fish in a 500 gallon tank you could get away with one 10 percent water change per week.

Really easy and simple to add on even if you don't add a center drain. I could show you on this website with clear pictures step by step. The bio media you need is just up the road in Missouri and not only the cheapest on the market but has the most surface area here:

http://alliedaqua.com/moving-bed-bio-media-by-the-cubic-foot.html

You could ge the media bacteria going seperately in the drum by feeding it nonsudzing ammonia until it's cycled and then hook it up to the tank.

All you need for a mechanical filter is a blue plastic 55 gallon drum, about four or five foot of 2 inch PVC, two 2 inch elbows and a 2 inch connnector, a 1 1/2 inch bulkhead fitting for a drain in the bottom of the drum, barb fitting and plastic hose, and 2 cinder blocks. And orchard netting cut in pieces for the filter material and a small mag drive pump that sits on top of the filter material to pull water up through the material to the adjacent biofilter drum.

The biofilter consists of another blue plastic drum, a 9 inch membrane diffuser or two 9 inch air stones, and an airline to an air source. And of course a water line that feeds the biofilter water from the small mag drive pump on top of the mechanical filter. The water line can feed in at the top or bottom of the biofilter tank. I'm gravitating to feeding it into one of the bung holes of the lid of the drum. If you cut the top of the drum off where it slightly narrows you can flip it over and use it as a lid.

Gotta go. Have to draw something up to get a building permit.



Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 09/17/15 08:54 AM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Re: Aquarium question
Bruce Condello #424153 09/17/15 09:07 AM
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What is the minimum temperature that a biofilter needs to maintain its healthy bacteria?


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
Re: Aquarium question
Bruce Condello #424161 09/17/15 10:49 AM
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Just above freezing, but try keep the low above 40F.

I'm going to try keep things in the upper 60's, so I'm setting my low (for media volume) in the upper 50's.

I only have specific engineering and performance data on one particular brand of media, so I can't comment on others that most would be familiar with. With that said, at 59F feeding 1lb of 40% feed/day it requires 1.3 cubic feet of media. If it drops down to 40F, the requirements bump up to 1.8 cubic feet. Best to toss a 25% buffer on top of that.

Re: Aquarium question
Bruce Condello #424176 09/17/15 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bruce Condello
What is the minimum temperature that a biofilter needs to maintain its healthy bacteria?


Don't know from experience as I've never had any reason to use it in coldwater yet. However what JKB says sounds right to me from literature I've read.

That said even if your bacteria is healthy in cold water, albeit working at a reduced rate, I would stil think you may have fungal issues with your readears if you keep the water cold.

As you know centrarchids in general have fungal issues if held in cold water facilities too long with lower corressponding feeding and a reduced immune response.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 09/17/15 01:20 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Re: Aquarium question
Cecil Baird1 #424177 09/17/15 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1

As you know centrarchids in general have fungal issues if held in cold water facilities too long with lower corressponding feeding and a reduced immune response.


Which rounds us back to the original question...what can be added to the water to reduce microbial activity?


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
Re: Aquarium question
Bruce Condello #424182 09/17/15 02:21 PM
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Oh, for Gods sake!!! All this discussion and Bruce is at square 1? May I simplify this, add lots of Cyanide.


Do nature a favor, spay/neuter your pets and any weird friends or relatives.
Re: Aquarium question
Bruce Condello #424198 09/17/15 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bruce Condello
Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1

As you know centrarchids in general have fungal issues if held in cold water facilities too long with lower corressponding feeding and a reduced immune response.


Which rounds us back to the original question...what can be added to the water to reduce microbial activity?


The salt will reduce stress.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Re: Aquarium question
Bob-O #424199 09/17/15 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bob-O
Oh, for Gods sake!!! All this discussion and Bruce is at square 1? May I simplify this, add lots of Cyanide.


LOL Bob! A little bleach will do the same thing!


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Re: Aquarium question
Bruce Condello #424201 09/17/15 06:25 PM
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If you are not going to depend on filtration and bacterial action consider sodium carbonate peroxyhydrate which is an addition compound of sodium carbonate and hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) an oxidizer. At lower concentrations is not toxic to fish and works well on inactivating bacteria and most algae. The nominal amount of sodium carbonate peroxyhydrate is 85% in PAK«27 which corresponds to 27.6% H2O2. If you are interested, I can check on the feasible rate of application.


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Re: Aquarium question
Bruce Condello #424203 09/17/15 06:36 PM
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Very interested


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
Re: Aquarium question
Bruce Condello #424207 09/17/15 06:55 PM
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I will try to contact the inventor of the product tomorrow to see if he has any experience with it as a bactericide and fungicide.


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Re: Aquarium question
Bruce Condello #424213 09/17/15 07:47 PM
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Thank you so much, Bill.


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
Re: Aquarium question
Bruce Condello #424246 09/18/15 08:54 AM
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Bruce PM or email me for details of using peroxygen for prophylaxis or reducing bacterial and fungal issues for fish. A large operation for farming redfish in Texas has used it.


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Re: Aquarium question
Bruce Condello #424254 09/18/15 09:42 AM
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Intrigued...

Peroxygen?


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
Re: Aquarium question
Bruce Condello #424283 09/18/15 04:58 PM
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Don't discount the in-situ biofiltration that will be going on within your tank. It all adds up and circular tanks have a decent advantage of utilizing the surface area of the tank as extended capacity, providing you have circular motion within and it is enough to shear the dead stuff off.


Re: Aquarium question
Bruce Condello #424293 09/18/15 07:25 PM
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Yep up to 30 percent of biofiltration according to one source takes place on surfaces other than the biofilter.

Of course much less than optimum at lower temps.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Re: Aquarium question
Bruce Condello #424296 09/18/15 08:01 PM
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Are we saying that I shouldn't be mop-cleaning the sidewalls of the tank?? That would certainly save me some effort.


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
Re: Aquarium question
Bruce Condello #424297 09/18/15 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bruce Condello
Are we saying that I shouldn't be mop-cleaning the sidewalls of the tank?? That would certainly save me some effort.



If the sides have a film but no crud as in uneaten feed or feces, I would leave them alone.

OTOH at your cold temps I'm not sure it's not academic to rely on biofilm.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 09/18/15 08:12 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Re: Aquarium question
Bruce Condello #424308 09/19/15 05:37 AM
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It looks like a live healthy bacteria culture. Maybe I could just clean up the feces and uneaten food off the bottom.


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
Re: Aquarium question
Bruce Condello #424312 09/19/15 06:44 AM
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I will readily admit to being completely ignorant about such things, but I would never have imagined that up to 30% of filtration could occur simply due to contact between the water and the sides of the tank. Wow.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Re: Aquarium question
sprkplug #424314 09/19/15 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted By: sprkplug
I will readily admit to being completely ignorant about such things, but I would never have imagined that up to 30% of filtration could occur simply due to contact between the water and the sides of the tank. Wow.


I feel like that's really accurate. I do know that the biofilm on the side of the tank looks and smells just like the bacterial cultures in the filters. And it's usually thick and dense.


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
Re: Aquarium question
Bruce Condello #424316 09/19/15 07:15 AM
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Up to 30% is a good number. I was just reminded of that when I ordered my bio-carriers yesterday and figured I would toss that out there. Price went up shockingly high, but it's still cheaper in the long run.

Re: Aquarium question
Bruce Condello #424325 09/19/15 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted By: Bruce Condello
It looks like a live healthy bacteria culture. Maybe I could just clean up the feces and uneaten food off the bottom.


In my circular fingerling tanks, where I preclude centripedal flow because they can't take a lot of current, I use a fine mesh aquarium dipnet attached to a section of 1 inch PVC to reach out slide along the bottom to pick up feces and uneaten food. I dump into a five gallon bucket. Works quite well. My center mounted membrane diffuser puts most of it into a pile next to the center.

I'm working on a DIY plug in siphon powered by a small pump, as I'm not impressed by the siphon's aquarium owners use. And I don't need to buy an expensive pool or koi pond vacuum.


Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 09/19/15 10:38 AM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Re: Aquarium question
sprkplug #424327 09/19/15 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted By: sprkplug
I will readily admit to being completely ignorant about such things, but I would never have imagined that up to 30% of filtration could occur simply due to contact between the water and the sides of the tank. Wow.


Also any plumbing that makes contact with the water will have bacteria growing on it.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Re: Aquarium question
Bruce Condello #424328 09/19/15 11:32 AM
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Cecil, I use a bell siphon like in the link below, designed for draining waterbeds. I use a 100' garden hose, then spliced in a 3' long "aquarium" style clear siphon tube that is readily available, and adaptable. It wastes some water when creating the full power of the venture action. I normally only started the siphon with the venture, and then let gravity take over. Under full power, I could drain a 150G aquarium completely in about 10 minutes.

Bell Siphon

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