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Bros,

Does anyone have a soft copy of the presentation about mountain lions that was given at one of the PB Con's? I think it was about three years ago.

It showed travel patterns that spanned hundreds and hundreds of miles.

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Bueller?? Bueller??


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Was it Beier?

This it?

Movement Patterns of Mountain Lions during Different Behaviors


https://oak.ucc.nau.edu/pb1/vitae/Beier_et_al_1995.pdf

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 08/02/15 02:23 PM.

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I don't have such a copy. I no longer tell people that I've spotted mountain lions in our area. Both "supposed" sightings were on the Shenandoah South Branch. One was a full grown critter that came down to drink at dusk in my favorite small mouth fishing hole. It was tawny colored. When it saw me, it slowly backed up the bank, and totally disappeared into the background.

The other sighting was a juvenile that was chestnut colored. It was running through a hay field on the opposite side of the Shenandoah River from where I was. The most striking feature, besides its color, was its tail. It's tail was extremely long.

I reported both, but I guess I was considered just one more of the crackpots.

Having spent nearly all my life in very rural woodland settings, I feel I have a pretty good sense of what I see. I've done a lot of hunting. I've never shot anything that I thought was something else.

To tease our wonderful friend TJ, I still haven't seen a Big Foot, except maybe for our other good friend, FireIsHot!


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Thanks Cecil, but that wasn't the one.

I'll check with Luskie.

If we develop some thoughts from the paper I'm looking for, a lot of mountain lion sightings could be from individual animals that were slowly moving through areas while on a greater journey to a further destination. So, if you saw a mountain lion, the chance of someone else seeing it again in the same vicinity, but at a later point in time, would be small, hence the suspicion towards the person who claimed the first sighting.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Sunil -- yes!

A mountain lion was killed by a car in Connecticut, fairly near to where Lynda's sister lives, a couple of years ago.

That particular critter was tracked from the Dakota's, through Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois and Michigan. I don't remember where else it was spotted before heading to Connecticut for its fateful end.

There was a similar incident of a mountain lion being hit by a car on I-68, east of Charleston, WV, a few years ago. It had reportedly been sighted on the highways by several people before the very last incident. They never found the mountain lion, but they believe it too came from somewhere west of the Mississippi.

I'm curious why you are interested in this. Have you sighted one when opening the outhouse door at your pond?

If so, neither I, nor any of my friends had anything to do with it.


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Look up publications by Joe Holbrook, PHD did studies on cougar and pumas. He is working at the University of Idaho. He did a presentation at the 10th Mountain Lion Conference


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Sunil, I'm betting that it was from Dan VanSchaik


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I was just in Florida visiting family. Always fascinated with flora and fauna of an area and the challenge of learning new species I'm not familiar with. Florida is estimated to have around 150 panthers as they call them, the same species known as cougars, mountain lions, pumas, etc. Anyways, with only 150 cats, in excess of a dozen are killed on state roadways each year. So about 1 in 10... Most tend to be young dispersing males.

In the last decade only one mountain lion of wild origin has been killed in the east. The famous Connecticut cat which DNA testing showed originated from the furthest east naturally reproducing population which is in South Dakota. This cat was a young male who was dispersing, nature's way of preventing inbreeding. So if only 1 cat has been killed in the east in 10 years that means in all the east only about 10 mountain lions got so lost as to find their way here. If you use Florida population to annual roadway mortality numbers. I think 10 is far fetched though.

Look, if the east had mountain lions, people would be waffling them more regularly with their cars, poachers would be killing them, just like they do in Florida and we'd have female cats. All cats killed east of the Dakotas have been young male cats dispersing. I'm just a statistics and facts driven person though.


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Maybe it depends upon perspective? I concur with Travis's assessment, however if I take a photograph of a mountain lion, as a few folks here in my area have done, and the DNR declares "that's impossible Indiana doesn't have mountain lions", as they were prone to do just a few short years ago, who would be correct?

If the determining factor regarding validity of the statement "I saw a mountain lion", revolves around whether or not a state has a reproducing population of ML's, and the answer is no, does that invalidate the photo of the young male cat dispersing into another territory?

If I were fortunate enough to snap a photo of a mountain lion coming down out of the woods around our ponds, and the DNR's response were to inform me that Indiana has no reproducing ML population of its own, so what? I never made the claim I saw an entire pride of mountain lions, with mamas' and kittens....I simply said I saw a mountain lion in Indiana. And I would be correct.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
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Sparky, does that maple syrup ya make ferment?


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It might Bob....lot of sugar in there!

How about this from 2-3 weeks ago: http://abc7chicago.com/news/black-bear-spotted-roaming-nw-indiana/869999/

Indiana has no black bear population, according to the DNR. And I would agree with them. Yet three of the four states surrounding the Hoosier state, do in fact harbor bears....Ohio, Michigan, and Kentucky. Here is a case of a Michigan bear coming down into Indiana, and being seen and photographed.

Had there not been multiple sightings and photographs, just a single eyewitness report with no evidence to back up the claim, what would the consensus of the authorities be? Crackpot? Drunk? Mistaken identity?

If that bear were seen in someone's front yard, making a burrito out of the family terrier, would a DNR official tactfully explaining the fact that Indiana has no indigenous black bear population make it all better??

For years, I have researched both cryptic and out-of-place animals. They show up a LOT.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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I've only seen 2 of them in my life. Both were in the Rocky Mountains while elk hunting. Their normal range is 200 miles. I looked up "Florida Panther". I noticed that cub reproduction is unusual.

It seems that the Adirondacks would make acceptable habitat for both sexes.

I have no doubt that both sexes roam but have no idea why no females have been reported on the East Coast.

They occasionally but rarely show up around my area. But, due to elusiveness, they could show up more often than we think. About 20 years ago, several credible sightings were reported around my place. I asked the GW. He said that a female with cubs had been verified.

I found one set of prints last year that were massive. The GW said that lots of verifiable prints were found but, so far, no game cam pics. He came and looked at the prints on my place and said that is was either a MT lion or the worlds biggest bobcat. I would love to see one.

I don't think they are protected here but I wouldn't shoot one.

Last edited by Dave Davidson1; 08/10/15 08:40 AM.

It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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I have a lot of first hand experience with mountain lions at our place in CO. Very scary animals if you have small kids and we have 4 of them. Where we deal with them, the bears have a heavy respect for humans. MOST OF THE TIME the bears take off like a rocket as soon as they hear you open the door. The lions don't run though. They will sit there and stare you down. That's a big part of the reason we have been clearing so much up there. Trying to get a little breathing room around the cabin so I am not so on edge while the kids are outside playing.
IMO, if you don't have them where you live, be grateful!!!


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One early morning @ or around daylight, I was driving down hwy 169 about 20 miles S. of Shreveport, when a came up on an animal walking down the middle of the hwy. I was not sure what it was, so I slowed way down. As I got real close, it herd me and it looked back and then I realized it was a young cougar. (age based on the size of the head) one jump and it cleared the rd. That was about 10 yr's ago. My next experience was in one of my wildlife food plots where I found these really big tracks. I took a picture of the tracks and when I returned home I looked up the tracks and the tracks were Mt. Lyon (cougar) tracts. This was about 30 miles west of Shreveport, across the rd from a 9,000 acre Nat wildlife refuge and 1 mile from the banks of Caddo lake, 27,000 acres of the largest cypress tree forest in N. America. That happened about two yr's ago. I carried my pistol with me for several weeks after that.

Tracy

Tracy

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I still haven't tracked down the paper/presentation (little effort expended).

Luskie was going to find it. I'll ping him again.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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I saw a Cougar (Mountain Lion) on July 11th about 2 miles due west of the city of Newaygo in Newaygo County MI.

It crossed the road in front of me after I made a curve going west doing about 30mph, and doubt it was more than 100' away.

It was really cool, but if you mention this to the authorities...

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My folks saw a (they assume the same one) cougar multiple times over a 3-4 year period in Southern Illinois, on or around the Shawnee National Forest. They had a 2 mile stretch of road they used to walk daily, very early in the morning. They saw the cat 5-6 times over a stretch of several years - they only stopped seeing him when they stopped walking regularly.

This was before the prevalence of cell phones and their accompanying cameras. I recall mom carried a regular old camera for a while but never managed to get a pic.


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I just returned from fly fishing solo in WY for 8 days - most of it in areas with pretty dense cougar, black and brown bear populations due to abundance of Mule deer, young Elk and young Moose and it's remote nature many miles from any roads or civilization. I never worried, nor ever have, about cougars. Rather, walking through the dense willows along the rivers and streams I fished presented a far greater danger - stumbling across a Moose cow and young. They will stomp one lifeless in a matter of seconds. I carried bear spray, which is a concoction of various pepper capsicum extracts if you're not familiar - however for it to be effective one must have the target downwind. Instead, whenever I approached dense willow thickets or berry patches I blew my coach whistle a few times, waited a few minutes, and proceeded. The spray really serves as a false sense of security - like carrying a pistol to take down Moose or Grizzly, but I figured going down while fly fishing in the Wyoming mountains is one of the most preferable manners in which to end it, anyhow. That, or a lightning strike when the fly rod is about 12 o'clock...one should be so fortunate to pass while doing what one loves!


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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We have now had 5 trail cam confirmed sightings in suburban St Louis. DNR says 3 different cats, possibly passing through, but we also have large wooded tracks and huge numbers of urban deer. I have had 3 different deer within 6 feet of me, 3 times already this year. We have rarely seen deer in our yard in the 15 prior years living here, but almost daily throughout the entire subdivision this year.

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Originally Posted By: Sunil
If we develop some thoughts from the paper I'm looking for, a lot of mountain lion sightings could be from individual animals that were slowly moving through areas while on a greater journey to a further destination. So, if you saw a mountain lion, the chance of someone else seeing it again in the same vicinity, but at a later point in time, would be small, hence the suspicion towards the person who claimed the first sighting.


Wouldn't that would be assuming people even report the sightings. Missouri DNR claimed we had no lions for years, till a Missouri University Prof, got tired of being called a liar and told his pictures were not genuine and gathered up scat the MoDNR could not refute. We also were told there were no water moccasins, till a young skier was killed when bitten multiple times in a nest. We also didn't have black bear, till we suddenly had hundreds....

People don't report many sightings around here because they are afraid of being called liars, or the states will come in and remove animals.

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Originally Posted By: Rainman
Originally Posted By: Sunil
If we develop some thoughts from the paper I'm looking for, a lot of mountain lion sightings could be from individual animals that were slowly moving through areas while on a greater journey to a further destination. So, if you saw a mountain lion, the chance of someone else seeing it again in the same vicinity, but at a later point in time, would be small, hence the suspicion towards the person who claimed the first sighting.


Wouldn't that would be assuming people even report the sightings. Missouri DNR claimed we had no lions for years, till a Missouri University Prof, got tired of being called a liar and told his pictures were not genuine and gathered up scat the MoDNR could not refute. We also were told there were no water moccasins, till a young skier was killed when bitten multiple times in a nest. We also didn't have black bear, till we suddenly had hundreds....

People don't report many sightings around here because they are afraid of being called liars, or the states will come in and remove animals.

So when I tell you I have seen one ghost and one shadow person in my life up close and personal, I think most might think me a liar. But God as my witness I don't lye. I may not tell everything I know, but do not lie. Mostly because I learned yr's ago you can not lye because you will get caught in the lye due to forgetfulness. Ha, my wife says if I don't tell everything it is lying. But sometimes I might over estimate the size of my fish I catch smile

Tracy


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I think Rex brings up a valid point. Those reporting sightings of unusual or out-of-place animals often face derision and mockery for even coming forward.

And there's also the monetary factor. If the spotted owl can severely impact the North American timber industry, what do you suppose the official acknowledgement of a dwindling population of bipedal, forest dwelling hominids would do? Granted that's an extreme example, but even if we use the cougar instead there's still the matter of a possible negative impact on tourism, probable restrictions of building and habitat encroachment, concern over grade school placement, hiking trail development, etc.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Sparky, "bipedal, forest dwelling hominids". Paleeze. I had ta get out the dictionary. I guessed bipedal was referring to a bike or tricycle but see it means two footed, now that's odd. I'd of thought ya might have just said two footed. Now I didn't have ta look up forest dwelling cause right away I thought of you, Catman and DD(tho he dwells in the cactus and Tumbleweeds). Now when I went lookin for "homonids" I couldn't find it. However I came across the word homo-sex-ual. I know what that is and freaked so bad that I threw the dictionary across the room.
So for the sake of us less intelligent, knuckle draggin Cro-Magon critters. would ya please lighten up on the big brain words.


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Sorry Bob.

Hey, squirrel season opens today, and this forest dweller may partake this evening. Provided the mountain lions don't get me first. wink


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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