Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain Forage for Yellow Perch ?

We stocked
750 RR/FHM
40 RES
90 BG
5 KOI 6"
Was looking for a table fish and think we have settled on YP
Zetts fishery http://www.zettsfishhatchery.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/CompleteCatalog.pdf
Is the closest place I can find them . However they call the Seminole Yellow perch
a european strain and not great lakes . Supposedly get bigger ??
Since they come from WVa I figure they can survive Central VA waters also.
Any other types of forage I should be looking at to support these YP ?
They also have Crayfish which they call common whatever that means. Thought about them but hear pros and cons.
Also plan on putting a quart of Daphnia for little fish forage.
Any additional suggestions ? or thoughts.

What will your top predator be? LMB?

Common shiners. Our Yellow perch love the challenge catching them and they are populating very well for us. The fatheads are not doing as well I think the perch will over eat them in time. The common shiner and emerald shiners we have are very fast and with out cover seem to hold their ground against the perch so far.

Crayfish are great. If we put on a 1.5" crayfish on a hook the perch hit that crayfish so hard its exciting. They don't mess around like they do with a worm or minnow. They just NAIL it.

Cheers Don.

Bill - I just got off the phone with the VA DGIF pond biologist.
after that discussion if I stock YP I better go with a few 5 or six LMB next year after this small stuff gets established . It wasn't my preference because I am not big fan of them
but its going to need to be part of the equation. He didn't feel CC would do the job needed so I guess its going to be LMB as top predator. I plan to just catch them in local
farm ponds next fall.

DonoBBD
Ok thanks - maybe some other fast minnows - anyone suggestions for a southern VA pound.
BTY the biologist said he wouldn't stock the crayfish - they will show up to a certain extent in this area anyway .- So I guess some kind of shinner thats fast ???

If you don't like LMB what about WE?

What about HSB/WE combo. Your LMB will reproduce which will require you to manage the YP and LMB. If you go the other route, you will have to add more to down the road but it gives you control. If YP numbers go up, just add more predators, if they go down remove a few. I believe there are a number of people on the forum using the YP/HSB combo and some are also adding SMB but they will reproduce.

I have a VA pond with yellow perch and have dealt with Zett's. Zett's has good fish; however, they are also pretty full of $&it. No need to stock daphnia, they appear on their own but Zett's will sell you a bag full of pond water for $20 by calling it daphnia. They sell golden shiners but decide to call them "silver shiners" so some uninformed customers will buy into their BS. Their yellow perch are good perch but they are the same perch every other distributor stocks.

I stocked FHM, golden shiners, and crayfish from Zett's and they all did well. I suspect the crayfish they carry are the reason I cannot get any lillies or eel grass to grow in my pond and if I had it to do over I would order 1,000 papershell crayfish from http://www.smithcreekfishfarm.com/request_a_quote.cfm but my fish seem to love eating them. Zett's only has yellow perch in the fall and when I called to buy them they kept saying "we should have them in two weeks" and by October I got sick of waiting and bought from a mobile fish truck. My perch have grown rapidly and have pulled off several spawns.

If you stock LMB I would advise stocking only females to prevent your pond from becoming bass heavy. From the link in your signature I see your pond is 1/4 acre so 5-6 female LMB would be plenty. I suggest sinking a few christmas trees if you do not have any aquatic vegetation, the perch LOVE to spawn on submerged christmas trees.

Your YP can eat small bluegill fry but you should add another minnow. You can try to get spotfin shiners, satinfin shiners, or bluntnose minnows to establish but since you already have bluegill in the pond I do not think you can establish a sustained population without spending a fortune on fish that are typically not commercially available. Banded Killifish could establish if you were to wild source enough, CJBS2003 met with me a few years ago at the Tidal Potomac river and we used his seigning net to catch about 40 of them and they established well in my pond. Banded Killifish are very quick and predator resistant plus they spawn all summer long, Zett's carries them as "Bull Minnows" but they never seem to actually have them in stock. If you want to go the commercial route I would buy golden shiners and stock them ASAP. If you can get them over 4" great, if not you will need to wait a bit before you stock your yellow perch. You want the GSH to get big enough to pull off a spawn before the yellow perch grow big enough to prey on your brood stock.

If I remember correctly HSB are illegal to stock in VA or at least they were when I came up with my stocking plan.

I know VA DNR stocks them in a few reservoirs, isn't that a bunch of crap they can and a private pond owner cannot. This is also why local help is always nice, someone in Ohio might get you in trouble!

OK - thanks for the come back :

VA biologist says HSB will not survive in my pond - so I figure WE won't either
The HSB were my first choice.
He said you can stock HSB in VA in private ponds.
We did put Rosy red minnows in..

Zetts ; WVA or PA ? I have been calling Wva
My supplier of already stocked fish already warned me about BS from them but says have some good fish to offset the BS.
All fish I stocked 1 week ago were about 2" - except KOI . So I don't have any BG that would eat a minnow yet- I don't think.
I am trying to get the forage up before we stock YP.
Thanks for the info.

And a week ago Zetts told me two weeks on the YP so I'm going to call again Friday to see if we are getting the never ending two week story. LOL
Thanks for the tip

I have only dealt with the WVA store. Call them and order some "silver shiners" and they will have your order ready by this weekend for pickup. Ask if they have "bull minnows" and you might get lucky, if you do PLEASE tell me because I want to put some in my forage pond.

They have YP they could sell you, just like they have banded killifish they could sell you. The problem is they are not interested in seigning them for one order. They wait till they have several orders in to make it worth their time. Apparently nobody else has ordered "bull minnows" because they simply never seign for them. At one point I waited 2 months for banded killifish as they kept saying "we will have them next Saturday!"

Your YP will do best (fast growth) if they are pellet trained and you feed them. YP normally do not eat a lot of small minnows or a significant amount until the YP are around 5"-7" long. Then at that length the YP are eating mostly 3/4"-1.2" minnows.

By stocking BG in the pond you are basically forced to adding LMB to keep reproducing BG numbers controlled. Control of BG numbers can be done manually but it is a "lot" of frequent manual work. If it were mine I would have replaced the BG stocked with more RES and YP. this way adequate predation could be using HSB or SMB.

Rockville provides a pretty good evaluation of Zett's practices.

How much silver shiner I need to put in ?

Bill - sorry but the BG are already in there in #s from first post.
I am going to supplement with pellet feed - already throwing a little handful of small stuff in but I think its still to big for them yet.
I don't see any fish which I guess is good.
We are close to reservoir that has HSB so maybe add some later to see if they last but they say not enough deep open water for them in my puddle. Don't know but have access to lots of small ponds here with LMB if it don't happen .
So we will add predator but most likely next fall.

Can you ID female LMB ? Or is it just size difference.

Are bull minnows they same ones I used for 40 years in the Chesapeake bay the same - its what we always called them. But then again I have been calling White Perch -Green Perch for 40 years LOL

On bull minnows I know people that call bullhead that. Not a bull minnow if they have whiskers

When talking to Zetts, get the scientific name - i.e. genus and species. That way you know for sure what you are getting.

For instance, if you are in Texas and buy "perch" you will be buying sunfish, not yellow perch. By getting the scientific name you will know exactly what you are getting minus any advertising hype.

If you can't find female only LMB, I'd see what you can do about getting Smallmouth Bass in the pond, and stock them heavy. You can always stock LMB on top of the SMB, but once the LMB are in the pond you won't be able to get them out without killing and starting over.

State fishery biologists are curiously often far behind the scientific curve when it comes to fishery stocking advice. I would like to know why he states HSB will not "survive" in your pond. Is it very small? Shallow? If you can detail your pond characteristics more, we can help by providing more precise guidance.

Hi TJ
Your right they are not always right - also several people here have stated you can not stock HSB in VA - he says you can and I searched their web sight extensively and could not find a restriction other than possession limit.
There are some hatcheries that stock them in NC but can't find one in VA ?
That is south of me and they are stocked in a lake which is just south of me and deep.
Like a Striped bass they stress easily in warm water.
But I found a hatchery up north that had them but had several states listed as restricted and one was VA.
So where the real truth is I don't know.
The link to our pond information is at signature below.
The only change is we are down about 18 " from full pool due to the pipe seep we discussed.

ESSHUP
There is a link to the Zetts info above - They say its " Seminole Yellow perch " and not the same as great lakes . And its a european strain . Sounds like ZBS to me but when I call I will ask for the scientific name.

Did you see this thread from a few years ago?

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=253869

Zetts calls banded killifish bull minnows.

Reviewed all these links and have found another fishery called Southland Fishery in SC.
Thats in a day drive distance. They say on web they have YP and HSB.
However I remember in my search 2 weeks ago leaving a message with no return phone call - left another message today.
has anyone dealt with them. ?

UPDATE
called Zetts and talked to a different lady who seemed to know a little more of whats going on. Says they dipped this morning and the YP are still under a inch and it would
be another 7>10 days before they are big enough to seine .
Did not go into further details other than she said they had plenty of shiners.

I don't know if I can be of any help here, but I will try. I haven't been able to be on PB as much as I like in the last year, (Yes, I miss it) but life has a way of getting in the way.

I was at Zetts in Drifting PA yesterday. http://zettsfish.com/ They are a distant family relative of Zetts in West Virginia. I picked up ten HSB 6"-7", 2 Koi and 500 FHM. They are located about 30 mins north of State College. I have purchased fish from both Zetts locations over the last four years, and I will ONLY buy from Zetts in Drifting. I know that people are sensitive about their fish stockers and each has their opinion based on their experiences. I get it. I am simply sharing my experience with both.

My experience with the Zetts in Inwood is: First FHM order: I got rosy reds, gams, and FHM all mixed in. I MAY have gotten goldfish as well since I have little idea how goldfish got into the pond. (I didn't hand-sort) Second order was larger Yellow Perch stocked shortly after spawning and all died within days of stocking. I also had bought some koi from them, some of which died.

I turned to Zetts in Drifting. I stocked 30 yellow perch fingerlings and 20 HSB fingerlings two years ago. I found none dead. I stocked nothing last year, but added the ten HSB this year thanks to TJ's recommendation of ladder stocking. (I love TJ's advice and always listen intently when he is speaking.) I kept them in bags for six hours after purchase while I drove back to my client's location and then home. They arrived home looking super-healthy. I lost two FHM's but they had some sort of trauma so who knows. The rest looked great. The koi were also healthy when they went in the pond.

So again, this is a very small purchase and ONLY my experience. I think others have had success at Zetts in Inwood. Catmandoo is very close proximity to them and can give you a better opinion.

As to HSB in a small pond: I stocked 20 two years ago at 4"-5" IIRC. They are now 19"-20" and tons of fun. I found a female dead two weeks ago and she was full of eggs. No idea why she died. I have a 1/10th acre pond. We feed twice a day. Pond has HSB, YP, and FHM.

As for forage: I feel like there is not enough forage in there. I was hoping that YP would spawn and serve as a food source for the HSB, but so far I am unsure as to their growth rate. I have never caught a YP in the pond. I found one egg mass last year and one this year. Unable to catch any fry to determine if I have YOY YP. Whenever I fish for the YP I catch bass instead. I see YP swimming the edges and they seem small, 6-8 inches. So are they growing or are they lacking forage? Time will tell. We plan on adding some papershell crawfish this summer.

I hope some of this helps in some way.

Victor has stocked 200HSB per acre (20in 0.1ac). Way too many predators for very many yellow perch to be successful surviving past the 2"-4" size. The YP that do survive should be good sized (9"-12") if adequate food is present?