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Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant
teehjaeh57 #518596 03/30/20 01:29 PM
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I am chomping at the bit to get it done, but it has been interesting to say the least here in NY with this whole Covid-19 business. My neighbors behind us that were going to help, got it . They are OOC for a while. Local hardware store went out of business. Other hardware store closes before I can get to it... now I have 60# 400' of paracord instead of rope. The other rope I could have used would have been more than $250 in 4x100' sections. If I can get some real rope I will, but the paracord is all I've got for now.

I also couldn't get goggles from the local store. All sold out. Apparently to keep toilet paper dust out of your eyes or something.

Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant
teehjaeh57 #520013 04/27/20 11:33 AM
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Update:

I've got an excavator coming this afternoon or tomorrow to finish up taking out all the trees and stumps! It's been a dry month with a foot or less of water in the bottom of the pond. Then I'll need to get a unit of SoilFloc to put in as soon as we get some rain. Will be emailing you tj!

Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant
teehjaeh57 #520082 04/28/20 05:00 PM
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The good news: 97% good soil and clay throughout the sides and bottom of the pond area. The bad news: the excavator found a sandy area on the side of the basin near one end of the dam. Can't say I was surprised - there are other areas of sandy soils that can be found in the section where I live. The sandy area was at approximately the same elevation as where the water level would drop down to within a few days of a rain. Then a slower drop over several weeks until dry, maybe because of silt partially sealing the bottom there for the last few feet.

At least now I know where to concentrate my efforts. The excavator put some good dirt over the sandy area, as best he could. Still very dry here, some occasional showers, total of 0.20 inches for the past couple of weeks, but maybe a chance of some decent rain starting on the weekend.

When I think of all the work I've done the last 6 months cutting down trees, the $1,400 for the excavator was a bargain. Wish I'd thought of it last Fall.

Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant
teehjaeh57 #520461 05/04/20 11:55 AM
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What's next with our "97% OK" pond.
After conferring with TJ, we'll be waiting and seeing what happens once we get some rain, and are painting up some metal fence posts to put in the basin to use for depth gauges. He also had some good advice on what to put in it to help control mosquitoes.
Only a living room sized puddle in the bottom for now. The new total depth is about 10 to 12 feet with the sandy area about half way up on one side wall. It's got at least one granite boulder courtesy of the glaciers, I dug at it a little but gave up with a basketball sized piece exposed. Am using my tractor to try to put a foot or so of good dirt/clay over the small sandy area that is still exposed.
Long term, will monitor how well it is holding water (if/when we get enough rain to put something in it) then decide if will try SoilFloc by itself or may need to put clay over the sandy area to slow down any leaks, then followup with SoilFloc if a little extra something is still needed.

Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant
teehjaeh57 #520479 05/04/20 02:52 PM
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Happy to help - hoping when the rains finally arrive here in NE she holds like a tub and you won't need any treatments!


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant
teehjaeh57 #522352 06/10/20 08:34 PM
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Well, I finally applied the Soilfloc to the dam. I spent almost two weeks of sporadic time tossing in a rake and pulling out Chara. It just kept coming out! Then I rolled probably a ton of stone back up and out that I dumped in when I clean up stones to mow (10lb rocks and up). I am getting in shape...

So what I wound up doing is waiting for a very light breeze from the north to help keep stuff contained on the south side of the pond. I cast a fair amount from shore to about 6' out, and went over twice with two coats but not quite enough to just sit on top white clumps. Then I strung two lines across the pond of the paracord about 4' apart parallel to the dam, and 30' out. I then ran the cord through the gunwales of my little blow-up boat to keep it aligned.

I put part A in one large feed bucket, and part B in another at either end of the boat. I used smaller canning jars to cast it. Those jars didn't work all that well. I should have some larger cups or something without a restrained mouth.

So I was easily able to run the boat back and forth across the pond, and kept casting it towards the dam. The light breeze kept pushing it towards the material I cast from shore and would sort of run into it and stay. I was able to go back and forth 4 times when it finally backed up to the boat. I cast more to the point it was starting to sit on the surface in glops.

Mistake 1. Should have done it while on a colder day. I couldn't take the heat in the painting suit, so I stripped to shorts and a shirt. The dust stuck to my sweat and my cloths.
Mistake 2. Bare hands. Wow, this stuff is near impossible to finally get off!
Mistake 3. Expecting clean-off in the lawn with cold water to not take long. The slime just keeps coming! Soap, water, scrub, lava soap, water, my God it wont stop! Tossed out my cloths. Don't want that stuff in the septic tank for obvious reasons.
Mistake 4. Trying to unwind the paracord by chucking it. One big knot which took about 15 minutes to sort out.
Mistake 5. Expecting to ever use the blowup boat again. It is covered with dust and damp material. If it is anything like trying to clean myself off, it is done.

This morning there was a breeze from the opposite direction, but absolutely no indication of any Soilfloc on the surface or on the bottom. I worry I didn't apply enough, but I wound up only using 1.75 units. I have 2.25 left over! I may treat the west end in a similar fashion as I think I have a slow leak in the very bottom there also.

I am really hoping the backside of the dam finally dries up so I can actually mow it. Let alone slowing any leaks. Fingers crossed this has an impact in a few days time!

Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant
teehjaeh57 #522363 06/11/20 12:30 AM
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You're applying polymer in a loin cloth? No wonder things got messy.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant
teehjaeh57 #522387 06/11/20 10:36 AM
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Not quite, but I was in my tighty whities in the front yard (we are away from the road) giving out blood donations to the local mosquitoes while trying to clean off the polymer snot for a good half hour.

Speaking of which, that material is something else in that running your hand through the water and seeing how much is actually applied... the streamers of "snot" is wild. From the best I could tell, a basic application would swell to at least a foot thick on the surface before it sank, but it is so transparent it is hard to make out.

Also the tadpoles kept right on swimming through it, though this morning I didn't see any tadpoles. I think they may not have liked the material all that much from a long exposure. It's possible they are currently helping to clog the soil :-(. The fish didn't seem to care at all.

The strangest part to me is how I can not see any evidence of having applied the material at all. I expected to see the stuff resting on the bottom, or globs here and there, but nothing evident. Is this normal?

It rained last night and now I get to start measuring water depth anxiously over the next few days to see how much impact this has. I have my fingers crossed that the single application is enough to help. Before I applied two days ago I was losing 0.75" a day despite a small amount of water coming into the pond from a creek and ground water seepage.

Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant
teehjaeh57 #522389 06/11/20 10:44 AM
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I have applied this several times and can concur that the stuff has to basically wear off your boat or hands and clothes rather than wash off.

best to apply in warmer water (another application in July or August when water is warm is fine) and when water is at full pool to help push it down into the cracks at the bottom.

Outside of that, I did the same you did, ordered way too much up front and then got to do 2 or 3 staged applications which I think was a good plan anyway.

I used a handcranked seed spreader but a solo cup or wide flat plastic bowl would be super too.

Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant
teehjaeh57 #522391 06/11/20 11:20 AM
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It is one of the reasons I waited, the water was closer to 75F, which is almost as warm as it gets for us. It is just frigging hard to do it by yourself. I couldn't seem to align no wind and people availability and gave up. I hurried down right after dinner and squeezed it in before dark.

So did you apply multiple times because it wasn't very effective the first time? Or do you think you just missed where the leak was? I was afraid to dump too much in at once as it would just glop on top. I wasn't too worried about being too thin since it seemed I had too much material and could apply again. I just don't want to. It wasn't very fun.

Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant
teehjaeh57 #522392 06/11/20 11:37 AM
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Well, i didn't know where my leak was in my .25 acre puddle. I had a helper and we marked out the lanes on the grass but it turns out it isn't that fussy. we just had a rope on each end of the lane and you could easily see where the white film was on the water...so we just moved over another 3 feet or so into open water and broadcast to cover about 3' swaths at a time. The stuff floats around and merges even in the lightest wind so we did a good heavy coating till it was gelling on top. Then went around the edges and broadcast heavy on the edges. The hope was that putting some up on the banks would allow the water to come up higher and stay higher too.

I think my first application worked great. i easily could see less daily water loss. i just had 2 units left and wanted to use them and not store them. So i did my first application in late summer or early fall, the next one the next summer and used the last of it later that next fall. I don't know that the other applications helped that much more but it is likely that ground water seams could open up so a retreatment made sense to me.

I still have the luxury of almost no vegetation although I worry my heavy layer of non-decaying oak leaves in the deep may block the action of the polymer. I might just buy a unit of each and retreat some time again as i can really tell that the sand in the shallows gets rock hard like the sand grout between your patio stones in the shallows and to me that is good for something..

Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant
teehjaeh57 #522400 06/11/20 03:45 PM
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Squid

I've worked on hundreds of these projects the past five years and am a volunteer for Pond Boss - why didn't you contact me for instruction/direction/advice? My time is free, I've done everything wrong hundreds of times, and by process of elimination the remaining methods have proven to be reliable. Should have contacted me and learned from my mistakes. That goes for everyone - happy to help you avoid my costly errors! Don't be shy!

TJ


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant
teehjaeh57 #522409 06/11/20 08:31 PM
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TJ, Where would the fun in that be? I started down the correct path, read this thread a few times, but my limited time window and no help from the peanut gallery got me into the mess and I rushed the job. Meant to talk it out with you for sure! But I had no idea when I could pull the trigger. I have been waiting near 3 months for this. A sales person got me in a moment of weakness on the original purchase.

You know how it goes when there is too much going on... one guy cutting down some trees (dead ash) near the road while I have a small team in the backyard putting in a paver patio while the wife is working, and the kiddo with a 53 average in math because too many video games. (That problem is resolved, thank God). I just needed to get the fsk out and do something I wanted to do.

For one, it was too damned hot to wear a suit. I'm not from the south, so I cant take 90+ heat and high humidity. Just no. Suffered in other ways at the end, but it sure beat passing out from heat stroke.

Then somebody used up all the solo cups!!! Wasn't for beer, which is excusable. Teenagers! Grabbed the next best option that was disposable, glass jars. I should have purchased a few hand spreaders or any number of options, but a quick scan of the house revealed coffee mugs or bell jars.

My inflatable boat is on its last legs, it should have died years ago. It would be no real loss. You should have seen it after last night's rain! The inside looked pretty interesting with goo, but I was able to scoop out the wads of jell and chuck it.

I rescued the shorts, once they dried it came off. The golf shirt was a complete loss.

So I have been thinking about a slip and slide down the hill on the grass... anyone tried it on purpose yet? I hear the not on purpose is no fun.

The next application round should go a lot better.

BTW, already noticing an improvement on the wettest spot of the back of the dam. What used to be a running trickle is now just wet. Not bad for a day-ish. I'm sure there is still quite a lot of water to drain from the soil and remaining time for the sealant to fully swell.

Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant
teehjaeh57 #522448 06/12/20 06:31 PM
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Two days out:
Big farm pond lost 1/4 inch in two days (whut?!?) and rubber-lined pond lost 1/2 inch. So um, early to say, but certainly better than the 1+ inch I would have gotten with no treatment in the big pond, and even better than the 1/2 inch I expected.

The small garden pond water was warmer, so higher evap when the cold weather hit.

Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant
teehjaeh57 #522472 06/13/20 09:34 PM
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Wow! Liquidsquid, that sounds like great results! If I got results half that good, I'd be more than happy.


Bob


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Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant
teehjaeh57 #522539 06/15/20 11:21 AM
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It is absolutely stunning the difference! I highly suspected the application would be effective because of my soil type and lack of compaction, but I dared not hope it would work so well. I lost 1/8" of an inch since yesterday this time, and it is cool and dry out. I would have easily lost another inch before this. Since the application last week I lost a little over an inch total!

I am a little disappointed there is still a trickle of water from a leak on the upper middle of the dam, though from what I can tell it is far less than what it used to be. I was shooting for dried up for mowability. For this alone I may try treating again when the pond is full. Down about 5 inches now from full so it will take a fair amount of rain to get back up there, which may not be until the fall.

My running theory is I am gaining some water from uphill that is compensating for evaporation. There are a few trickles here and there.

Does it make any sense to treat the damp bare shoreline and maybe up to a foot out? Or is that just a waste?

Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant
liquidsquid #522607 06/16/20 11:28 AM
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What made you go with soilfloc instead of damit? I am from missouri and have a 3/4 acre pond that leaks about an inch a day. The back side of the dam is a soupy mess. I really think i just got a bunch of seepage goin on. I cut a willow tree down last year that was on the back side of the damn at the bottom and i think my problem has got worse. Any advice would greatly be appreciated if anyone has had any results.

Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant
teehjaeh57 #522617 06/16/20 01:52 PM
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Joe, I'm sure liquidsquid has his own rationale, but for me it was because a very helpful forum member had lots of experience with soilfloc and gave freely of his time and expertise to help me through it. I figured after 100 projects or more with soilfloc he must have had a reason to continue to use it and to help others use it. His success rate is good, i suspect if he understands your exact situation and helps you, you will also be a believer. I have no experience with the other product and I don't think others on this forum have mentioned using it before either. Perhaps we are just ignorant of the pros and cons of this alternative product.

Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant
canyoncreek #522622 06/16/20 02:34 PM
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sounds good i will take a look at it. Thanks

Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant
teehjaeh57 #522628 06/16/20 05:35 PM
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So I called soilfloc and it’s going to be about 6500 to do the whole pond. Has any one ever tried just doing the area they thought it was leaking from because then I can get by with about 1200. Thanks in advance

Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant
teehjaeh57 #522630 06/16/20 06:13 PM
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Hello Joe and welcome to the forum.

I'm a volunteer for Pond Boss and help guys with whatever I can from my experience - one of those items is leaking ponds as I own 7 and they've all historically leaked to one degree or another. We've worked on over 200 projects for Pond Boss members over the past five years, and I can count on one hand the number of projects that would cost that much. I spend my time helping guys SAVE money on treatments - but then again I don't work for the company, I work for the Pond Boss members - and that's my goal.

Feel free to reach out anytime, no way a .75 ac pond should cost that much to address, additionally, I seriously doubt you need to treat the entire pond. I'm confident that by working together we can achieve a much simpler, cheaper solution. Ask around, I've helped a few guys here save significant money, and I'm happy to chat anytime.

tj@hudlandmgmt.com


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant
JoeDK #522636 06/16/20 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeDK
So I called soilfloc and it’s going to be about 6500 to do the whole pond. Has any one ever tried just doing the area they thought it was leaking from because then I can get by with about 1200. Thanks in advance

Joe,
I only treated the suspect areas of my pond. Which were the dam and the eastern bank. Lots of gravel seen during construction on the eastern bank, and the sheeps foot roller shot craps during the last part of the dam build. After the soilfloc treatment my leak went from 1/2” per day to 1/4” per day. That was two or three years ago. I think it may have slowed down even more. I’ve been completely full, and at times running out the overflow pipe all spring. I staked out a grid to cover before I got started.


6 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (way too many), SMB, and HSB (didn’t make it. 0 seen in 5 yrs)
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant
teehjaeh57 #522656 06/17/20 10:24 AM
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Just to back up a little, Soilfloc came to TJ's and my attention right around the same time, so we have both been researching it and following progress over the years. I wanted to hold off to get an idea if this is a long-term fix or something that I have to apply every few years. From what I have seen so far, it is long term enough to be of no real concern. Where I am usually busy as hell with more than one project at a time, I have unable to reach out and help very often. TJ has been exceedingly generous with his time and effort of helping keep costs under control, how to apply, what not to do, and what to expect. Reach out to him for any questions.

I generally post here and try to keep things light and useful when possible.

A little information: My pond is almost exactly 1/2 acre. I was able to treat from the shoreline out about 24ft of just the dam on the downhill suspected seepage area with more than enough material, maybe even a little too much, with only 2 units. I purchased 4 units (4x A, 4x B) for insurance and the possibility that I discover a leak somewhere else if the first application didn't meet my expectations. There is no hard rule that you have to purchase and apply all of your material at once. The last thing you want is 20 huge bags of material you cannot get wet floating around in your shed for years. Imagine this stuff popping inside your shed/barn then getting wet!

I prepped my pond by manual weed removal as much as i could as I had large mounds of chara in the bottom with a highly alkaline pond. I simply had a large landscape rake on a thin rope and got really good at tossing it out to 24ft from shore. I talked to a local pond maintenance crew about treating the pond chemically for chara, and they claimed the copper treatments kill the stuff, but it takes a long time to break down when in water to a clean bottom, especially if the bottom goes anaerobic when the thermocline shows up in summer. The curly-leafed pondweed in general doesn't really grow on the dam much, but on the flat bottom, so got rid of that too. I wanted the best shot of success so I made darned sure it was as clean as I could get it.

I removed the piles of stone I had created to be used as walk-outs for fishing and shelter for small critters. Partly because they all sunk into the mud and were useless, and partly I wanted the soilfloc under them when I replace the rocks later. I also need to put down a sheet of landscape fabric to keep them from sinking as much when it put them back in. I like the idea of sitting on the rocks and fishing. Adds a little interest to an otherwise plain bowl.

Now I am not so sure I want the rocks back, as I may want to hit things one more time on pond full to be satisfied in the application.

Last edited by liquidsquid; 06/17/20 10:26 AM.
Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant
teehjaeh57 #522657 06/17/20 10:42 AM
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Do not have a leak but if I remember right , someone said it was very hard to pound a stake in the ground after they used Soilfloc. Would this work to make the bottom hard for a swimming area that right now you sink 4 to 5 inches in? The bottom is black dirt not clay. Sorry if I should of made this in it's own thread.


61 acre water shed lake. bass, channel cat, black crappie, wiper, walleye, redear sunfish and bluegill. To many bullhead and common carp
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Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant
nehunter #522665 06/17/20 12:58 PM
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nehunter, from my experience I don't think that would make the difference you are looking for. I've filled my swimming area with sand and surrounded the underwater portion of it with 6" pvc or concrete bags. While not perfect that has helped.


Just a Pond Boss 'sponge'
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