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#32093 07/31/07 12:31 AM
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Hi folks! nice forum.

I have a 60x65, semi-round pond. deepest spot is probably around 10', I'd say average 4-5' deep. Was dug fall of 2006 with left over dozar hours. Run off fed with access to well about 410' feet away.

I am considering aeration, found a few pumps on sites ya'll ( Texan for you'se guy's)((kidding)) talk about. going to be a DIY job, since I am going to rip a trench for water, I might as well bury some air line too. I have to run it about 415 feet all down hill, so need a pump capable of the run with 1" SCh 40 pvc thinking maybe the Gast #1532 ??? or 9052 I think it was. Also you're opinion on aerators for this small of tank, Diffuser or bubble hose (forgot the real name)
This pond will be for brood fish for future pond, which depends on if I can get anyone out to help me make up my mind on placement. I have had the USDA out can't get a extension guy out, ( refered me to USDA) No good pond info but loved my place..LOL, shoot, I never heard of USDA 590 till this site.

Currently have 60 1" copper nose, 3 lbs FH and 2- 2" Hybrid LMB and enough skeeter larvea to loan if anyone needs some
Thanks in Advance
Dennis


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#32094 07/31/07 10:38 AM
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Welcome Western,

Sizing a pump will depend on the amount of PSI, and CFM needed at the diffuser head. To reach the bottom of your pond (10') through 410' of 1" pipe, you will need to meet 4.64 psi. That does not include the back pressure on diffusers. You may need to add a fudge factor of .5 psi for the diffuser back pressure.

The Gast 1532 has been around ponds most of its life and is tried and true. The maintenance is much higher on the rotary vane compressors than the wobl or rocking piston compressors on the market. Therefore what you may save in the intial cost of the compressor will eventually be spent on vane kits each year or two.

The diffuser needs to be sized to meet the oxygen demands of the brood stock. If you are sticking with a warm water species, you can expect the fish to consume 0.03 lbs of oxygen per hour per 100 lbs of fish. In other words, 100lbs of warmwater fish will consume 3 lbs of oxygen per hour.

These are just some numbers and facts you need to write down when looking at when designing your system so you don't run into problems later on.

Again, welcome to Pond Boss.

#32095 07/31/07 10:40 AM
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I need to preview these before I post! Too many typos!

#32096 07/31/07 12:00 PM
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Cary,
Thanks for the reply and the welcome does this one look better?

TWIN CYLINDER AIR COMPRESSOR GAST #3LBH-1 2-M325X. 120 VAC 60 Hz5.2 amps 1/3 hp 1725 rpm. 2-cylinder piston oil-less design. Compressor is rated 3 cfmfree air. 2.4 cfm at 20 psi max. Pressure 50 psi at 1.8 cfm. Continuous duty. Fully sealedball bearing design. Dimensions: 6" high x 10-1/4" wide x 13-1/2" deep. Weight 27 lbs.NOTE:

This pond is more for looks and brood fish for future, larger pond.
Thanks agian


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#32097 07/31/07 02:38 PM
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I would stick with the rotary vane. Reason: the gast piston compressor like the one you describe is very loud.

In our experiences, when we receive a call for servicing one of these that has just quit, we find that the pistons have beat them selves up and there are only fragments of piston left. But the main reason is the noise levels the emit from it.

Again, you will be much happier with a rotary vane, rocking piston or wobl piston.

#32098 07/31/07 07:18 PM
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Thanks agian, In my rush to find one, I overlooked the "rocking" piston part, Thanks.

Any thoughts on diffuser or bubble hose for a pond this shallow? it seems to me that a bubble hose would require more volumne/psi


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#32099 07/31/07 11:03 PM
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 Quote:
Originally posted by Cary Martin:
...In other words, 100lbs of warmwater fish will consume 3 lbs of oxygen per hour.
Great post, Cary.

So my Dad's pond is currently carrying over 250 lbs of fish, so the demand is about 7.5 lbs of oxygen per hour. So my Kasco 3/4 hp. surface agitator is rated to produce 2.2 lbs of oxygen per hour, which I use only at night. I must be getting some oxygen from the circulators, but other than that the fish must be primarily consuming residual oxygen from photosynthesis the previous light period. Very interesting, and a little scary too. Maybe I'm walking a little closer to the cliff than I thought. Is there an equation for how many pounds of oxygen a rooted, and suspended plant community will produce per hour? Evidently more than 7.5 lbs of O2 per hour in a .15 acre pond.


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#32100 08/01/07 07:31 AM
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I have thought that the O2 added from air contact at the surface and then distributed throughout the pond by circulation constitutes more O2 input than what is directly added (by the bubbles) in an aerated pond. Am I right or wrong?

Or are you saying that total O2 addition from the Kasco, direct addition AND surface methods, is 2.2 lbs/hr?


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#32101 08/01/07 07:34 AM
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Absolutely! I'm just wondering how much net oxygen production I have after all factors are included. I was surprised that the surface agitator, with all it's incredible frothy fury isn't providing enough oxygen for my fish by itself.

Oops, we're posting and editing at the same time.

The Kasco is rated at 2.2 lbs of oxygen per hours by itself. When you watch it in action you would think that you could take out the circulation, plant production, everything...and still have enough O2 for that many fish.


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
#32102 08/01/07 08:43 AM
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To get the total you have to know/calculate all the sources including aerator , surface , and plants. I would think that the water-air contact would account for most followed by plants then aeration. You could take your DO meter and get 1 ft. readings and from that calculate water vol by depth and the O2 but I don't know the formula. I bet there is a better way than that though.
















#32103 08/01/07 09:07 AM
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 Quote:
Originally posted by western:
Any thoughts on diffuser or bubble hose for a pond this shallow? it seems to me that a bubble hose would require more volumne/psi
Welcome Western! The requirments for bubble hoses are:
1/2" inside diameter Bubble Tubing (coil size 100', weight: 60lbs)
Minimum: 0.02 cfm per foot
Optimal: 0.045 cfm per foot
Minimum PSI: 2.2
Maximum PSI: 50

3/4" inside diameter Bubble Tubing (coil size 200, weight 225lbs)
Minimum: 0.03 cfm per foot
Optimal: 0.065 cfm per foot
Minimum PSI: 5
Maximum PSI: 50

So in theory, your compressor is listed 3 cfm open flow and 2.4 cfm at 20 psi. Lets assume it produces 2,7 cfm in 5 feet of water. You could run an optimal of 60' and a maximum up to 130' lenght of 1/2" Bubble Tubing.


Mario Paris,
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#32104 08/01/07 09:31 AM
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Thanks Mario, for the info and the welcome.

I started thinking that I should decide on bubble tube or diffuser before getting a pump. that was an unknown that left picking a pump spec unknown.
my goal is to get enough water updraft to get a good boil/water movement, without plowing my deer plot next to the pond. The estimated depths are at full draw, so a 1 foot drop is possible which would leave me around a mean average of 4' depth (guessing). Since I see you carry both types what would you recommend on a pond this size, DIY system I mean
Thanks


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The OTR (oxygen transfer rates) published by Kasco are tested in clean water with no oxygen.

The other factors, surface water interface, wind currents, photosynthesis all play a roll along with the aeration.

Those numbers I gave earlier are from my aquaculture days at Aquatic Eco. We needed to know those numbers in a tank that did not have the plant life or the wind generated currents in them so we could correctly size a blower with airstone set ups.

I think you are fine Bruce and are not too close to the edge in an outdoor pond.

The only true way to know where you stand is by performing a BOD test (Biochemical Oxygen Demand). Some call it the Biological oxygen demand.

#32106 08/01/07 12:55 PM
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How difficult would it be to run a BOD test?


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#32107 08/01/07 04:10 PM
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6CO2 + 6H2O ------> C6H12O6 + 6O2
Sunlight energy

?? you guys left me behind..LMAO

Seems like BOD readings would fluctuate greatly in a real world test, all paramiters changing all the time. would be a kewl "snapshot" though


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#32108 08/01/07 05:43 PM
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Well, Bruce would want 100% sampling in real-time, of course. ;\)


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#32109 08/01/07 07:42 PM
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seems to me you could simplify all these matters by owning a DO probe (which are not cheap), and take routine vertical measurements in pond. let the real time DO data dictate what corrections are needed for any depleted zones identified.


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#32110 08/01/07 08:48 PM
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Hey that would almost be like us operating a nuclear core cooling resevior!
One of you come up with a plan and maybe we can get some government funding!!!


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#32111 08/02/07 04:14 PM
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 Quote:
Originally posted by western:
The estimated depths are at full draw, so a 1 foot drop is possible which would leave me around a mean average of 4' depth (guessing). Since I see you carry both types what would you recommend on a pond this size, DIY system I mean
Thanks
As far as I am concern, I would recommend Bubble Tubing for any depth less than 6'.

It makes for an easy installation, no sand or ballast concern, and the circulation of water is dispersed, the boil is elongated instead of concentrated. You can give it a shape, follow contour lines, and modify its location at whim.


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#32112 08/02/07 09:49 PM
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Thanks M Paris, can you tell me about what that stuff runs per foot? sounds neet and I like the look on your WP


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