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#396660 01/06/15 04:40 PM
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Does any one have both in there pond? Which would be better? I think Gras shrimp would be better, but gfp won't let us stock those in sd yet. They may some day. We can stock animals native to the state and the gamarus scudds is. I have been trying to learn more about them. Gamerus seem to be the largest aND populate good. At 1/2 inch I think.

Who else has scudds?


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from my understading Scuds will populate a pond with out you stocking them, They are part of a naturual zoo-plankton that developes.

You will have to stock grass shrimp however.


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Lots of ponds with out scudds here and they are a fresh water shrimp. At least the 3 large ones I know of. Could be zoo plankton called scudds too.


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The "regular Gammarus" (scud - aka shrimp) and one that is most often referred to here is Gammarus lacustris, a larger individual that grows primarily in cold or cool water habitats. It does not like water that gets into the 80's. So stocking this one with the warm water grass shrimp will not likely be productive. It would be like stocking trout(cool-cold) with tilapia (warm).
Quite a bit of past discussions about shrimp and scuds:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=140120
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=132273
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=18046
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=18024



However there numerous species of Gammarus scuds some that will live better in warmer water weedy habitats. There are about 80 species in 8 genera. Many of the species live in caves or dark places. Identification to species is often difficult and requires careful very close examination of specific body parts. Some of the Gammarus type scuds are small about 1/4" (Hyalella azteca) and some are larger 1/2"-3/4" G. lacustris. Some of the larger species are Gammarus fasciatus, G. lacustris, and maybe some types for sale on the internet where they are cultured in warm water (see below).

This link lists all the known species - there are a lot of them; so do your homework before wasting your money stocking quick snacks for your fish.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gammarus

G. fasciatus & G lacustris
Many scientists categorize them as cold water stenotherms, meaning that they require a narrow range of cold temperatures in order to survive (10-15C, with temperatures of 20-24C being tolerable).

The length of time G. fasciatus can tolerate a specific water temperature above 20C(68F) decreases with increasing temperature. Temperatures of around 3435C and more cause relatively rapid mortality. G. fasciatus is frequently associated with thick macrophyte beds.
http://animaldiversity.org/accounts/Gammarus_fasciatus/


Warmwater scud for sale:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gammarus-Shrimp-...e-/121295137554


Notice how fast the sunfish eat the scuds when dense weed cover is not present. Scuds are very vulnerable without dense weed cover; weed cover that is too dense for anglers to fish in is where scuds thrive .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLbiKQGoRX8

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/06/15 06:00 PM.

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Bill,

If you were inclined to stock scuds in your pond in Northern Ohio, which one would you choose?

Bill D.


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SD DNR may be well meaning, but misguided IMO - don't they also have a ban on Redear Sunfish? If grass shrimp are native to NE, hard to believe they aren't in SD watershed also. I think they could easily find their way into your pond naturally...just sayin.


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This is true tj. And I believe we do have some wild or native. I did source some res and we nt through the red tape. Would like to do the res again through a different source next time.

Bill Cody thanks for the info. I can't wait to get time to read it!!!


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Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Bill,

If you were inclined to stock scuds in your pond in Northern Ohio, which one would you choose?

Bill D.


I'm not sure which one I would stock. I tried the G.lacustris in my small weedy pond and they did not survive likely due to too warm of water. If doing it again I would order some from the eBay seller above or similar supplier, get them growing in a garbage can, swimming pool, or aquarium and then stock surplus in my pond. Evidently the guys selling them on ebay are able to grow them enough to sell their surplus.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gammarus-Shrimp-...e-/121295137554

I wonder if, and doubt that, these guys know the correct species name for the scuds they are growing. If they give you a species name it could easily a guessed at name since scuds are difficult to correctly identify. There are academic Amphipod (scud, Gammaridae) experts in the US that can correctly identify scuds. It might be a good idea to try and track down where the supplier's brood came from. Hopefully their scuds are not exotic foreign species not native to the US. We don't need more exotic nuisance animals in our waters. Too many of them already. Evidently some of the aquaponics people have scuds in their system and the scuds are helping process the fish waste.

Here is what I found on the web of how to grow a culture of scuds.
1) Fill a plastic garbage can or an aquarium with aged water. Place about 5cm (2 inches) of dried leaves. Most tree leaves are good, but you should avoid oak leaves. Dried mulberry leaves are excellent. Place the container is a sunlit location. Aerate the water lightly. Scuds can survive winters outside in most of North America, but reproduce best at 20-30C (68-86F).
2) Add a starter culture of Gammarus; a few dozen will be enough.
3) Scuds feed on rotting leaves and microorganisms take grow on any surface. Provide adequate surface area to increase the population size by placing rolled up plastic screening in the culture container. The author uses plastic coated water cooling pads.
4) Within four weeks there will be enough scuds to harvest. Harvest by netting them with a fish net or by picking up the plastic screening or cooling pads and shaking over a bucket.
5) Feed the culture with additional leaves as they are consumed or decompose. Periodic, partial water changes are beneficial.
6) Cultures are long-lasting and sub-culturing is necessary only when production declines. Nevertheless, it is wise to maintain a replicate culture in case of a disaster.

I think the culture would need to be aerated to keep it from going anoxic, loosing the DO from the decomposing leaves and killing all the scuds thus his suggestion of a replicate or duplicate culture.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/06/15 08:59 PM.

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I have kept a few scuds in buckets for a few days.

With no weeds or mulch they go a long time with out air, but with food in there it seems like it goes "Sour" real fast.

I havent kept any to try and culture them but that looks like fun too. I want to try and identify some of them.

Only places I know of local populations are in the creeks, non in ponds


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Our forum member Wood from Canada had lot of scuds living in his small trout pond that had coontail as the main water weed.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=1722&Number=18999#Post18999

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/06/15 09:47 PM.

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Thanks Bill,

I will definitely try the scuds next summer in a garbage can or two. I am thinking keep the cans in the shade under some trees might help keep the water temps down.

I wonder if you could work something like the garbage can thing to raise grass shrimp?

Bill D.

Last edited by Bill D.; 01/06/15 10:15 PM.

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Bill cody's video is fun to watch. Those buggers like the shrimp.


Researching these I've come across some of Dave Willis's old posts. Miss him. He was always willing to help and very friendly.


Any one seen how they collect them under the ice? I have searched a little, but no luck yet.


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