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#391963 11/07/14 06:26 PM
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Hi I'm new to the forum and this is my first post.

I just moved to a house on 2 acres with a 100' x 40' "retention" pond 30' from the back of the house. As my pond fills the dam spills over to the East to a larger pond where most of my neighbors live.

On the west end of the pond which is only 1' deep a farmers field drains to the pond through a culvert. After 20 years my pond is only 4' deep near dam at it's deepest point.

BUT THERE'S MAJOR FISH IN THIS POND THAT I WANT TO SAVE!!!

I got a bid from a Pond company that wants to use a long reach excavator to dig it out and leave the dirt on the banks to dry enough to be hauled off. He also want to dig the West end that comes from the farmers field really deep so that the dirt particles circulate and collect and be cleaned out easily in the future. $10,000

I work at an oil refinery that uses cooling water towers for our exchangers. The basin fills up with sediment that looks like clay. We recently hired "divers" aka waders to clean out the basin that was only a few feet deep.

The "divers used a 6" trash pump to a "seepage dumpster that separated the soil from the water and returned the water back to the cooling water tower.
I spoke to one of them and he said a 4" pump could handle my pond easily in a day.

So I called an equipment rental place and I can rent the hoses, pump and dumpster for a week for $2500...

So what do you all think?

the water still comes to the bank, I would just like to get
rid of some of the muck/silt
I can stick a canoe paddle easily into the bottom about foot deep.


Last edited by stlhooked; 11/07/14 06:27 PM.
stlhooked #391966 11/07/14 07:01 PM
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Welcome to the forum!

You also will need some silt pillows or maybe a few of those seepage dumpsters.

If you only have a foot of muck on the bottom of the pond, and the pond is 100'x40', you can easily calculate the amount of muck that you will take out, if you can get the water drained out of it pretty quickly. 1' of muck on the bottom of the pond equals about 148 cubic yards of muck, depending on how much water is mixed with it.


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stlhooked #392000 11/08/14 09:17 AM
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That's alot of muck! The seepage dumpsters only hold 25 cubic yards

stlhooked #392017 11/08/14 12:33 PM
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Yes it is. 100x40=4000. (that's if the muck is 1' deep over the whole pond bottom)
4000χ27=148 (27 cu. ft. in a cubic yard)


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stlhooked #392140 11/09/14 08:13 PM
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Do you know for certain how deep the muck is? The reason I ask is I am currently cleaning out a couple areas that are probably 2 to 3 times the size of what you are talking about but I have dirt coming out my nose because when we started digging with the track hoe they didnt find the original clay until 6-8 feet down...

Where are you located? I am between bunker hill and staunton, if it would help you to see what came out of mine and how huge the dirt pile I have is let me know.


My pond renovation thread here
stlhooked #421041 08/15/15 04:10 AM
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I'm not sure exactly- it's hard to walk through with rubber boots! I'm located between Edwardsville and Troy.
How's you're clean-up going???

stlhooked #421049 08/15/15 08:17 AM
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Again, let me be the first to say welcome to PB. The rest of these guys are so smart that they get right to business before sayin hello. I'm not near so intelligent but have a suggestion. Since you have a relatively small area you should consider and research aerating and bacteria treatment. With a DIY air system and homemade bacteria I think over a bit of time you should be able to accomplish your goal and provide a better envorment for your "MAJOR" fish.
Good luck, Bob-O


Do nature a favor, spay/neuter your pets and any weird friends or relatives.
stlhooked #421397 08/18/15 08:30 PM
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I also have been looking at cleaning out a pond. Some random thoughts that I have looked at or tried.

Instead of the dumpsters you might also want to look at dewatering bags.

I bought a 3" gas powered trash pump from Northern Tool. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200380031_200380031
It works very well and it is relatively quite cheap.

A couple years ago I had one end of my pond dug out with a large excavator and when I later drained the pond I found the area he dug was very uneven and looked rather terrible. Realizing it's always underwater but I would think it would effect how well my aerator will work on that part of the pond.

For mine the contractor wanted to build a muck retainment area to put the muck in. Basically making a hole for muck storage.

I actually pumped mine dry and the muck is way thicker than I originally thought.

Anyway I'm sure with all the experts here you will get a lot of helpful advise. I know I have learned a ton on here.

stlhooked #424641 09/23/15 11:30 AM
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I am in Madison Co, IL near Hamel and looking at options for my muck problem. 2-3 acre pond built in the 1930s. 2-4' of muck.

@BlueCamaro, What did the drain and removal cost?

@ STLHOOKED, what did you end up doing?

Any resources in the area you can recommend?

Thanks!

Nomad #424645 09/23/15 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nomad
I am in Madison Co, IL near Hamel and looking at options for my muck problem. 2-3 acre pond built in the 1930s. 2-4' of muck.

@BlueCamaro, What did the drain and removal cost?

@ STLHOOKED, what did you end up doing?

Any resources in the area you can recommend?

Thanks!


Welcome to the forum. If you want it done fast, draining, and mechanically removing it with heavy equipment is the only option. If you are willing to do it over a long length of time, taking steps to minimize any organics going into the pond, aeration and a continual bacteria program will help a great deal.

My vote is for draining and mechanically removing.....


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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stlhooked #424711 09/24/15 07:42 AM
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esshup, thanks for the quick response. There is a ton of info on these boards and am glad I found this resource.

Any idea how much mechanically removing muck might cost per acre of pond or cubic yard of muck (or whatever the measurement might be?) as a general rule of thumb?

What is the process?

1 drain pond
2 Let sit and dry (for how long?)
3 backhoe to remove muck to clay
4 let water fill back up
5 Restock pond with fish (how long after refilled with water)


I know these are pretty basic questions but I am all new to pond management and want to have a great pond to fish and occasionally swim in.

Thanks!

Nomad #425022 09/28/15 07:45 AM
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For mechanical removal, it's

1 drain pond or cut a trench in the dam and let the water out.
2 Dig hole in bottom, keep pumping out water as long as it collects.
3 Let sit and dry as long as it takes to not be "soup".
4 backhoe to remove muck to clay
5 Place cover for fish and forage
6 let water fill back up
7 Restock pond with fish (how long after refilled with water)

You can stock fathead minnows when there's a couple feet of water in the pond, typically the forage is stocked first then the predators go in a year later. Or higher quantities of fish are stocked if they are all stocked at the same time.

Now, what to stock is all dependant on your goals.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
stlhooked #428882 11/10/15 04:18 PM
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Has anyone ever heard of these guys as an alternate to mechanical dredging?

http://www.sedimentremovalsolutions.com/

stlhooked #452884 07/26/16 05:00 PM
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Here's the quote the above mentioned sent.


ORGANIC SEDIMENT REMOVAL SYSTEMS, LLC
“A Leader in Pond Restoration since 1991”
……………………………………………………………………………….......................
Richard Kohutko - Owner Phone: 608-565-7105 Michael Kohutko
N9397 7th Avenue South Cell: 608-547-7753 michael@pondclean.com
Necedah, WI 54646 Fax: 608-565-6434 Cell: 608-234-1996
richncat@tds.net http://www.pondclean.com FL: 561-328-3757


July 20, 2016

Darin Gries
8300 Water Edge
Edwardsville, IL
618-781-9687 darin.gries@gmail.com


Dear Darin,

We wish to thank you for considering OSR Systems for your pond-restoration project. We are the original founders of this type of system and have been removing sediments from ponds and other waterways for the past 26 years. Most of our equipment has been modified and patented exclusively for OSR Systems. I am confident we can be of valuable service in your efforts also. As you are aware, OSR Systems’ charges are based on time and material to save our clients time and funds as well as work within their budgets. If elected, this process also allows projects to be completed in stages instead of all at once.

“SCOPE OF WORK”

Operations of OSR Systems
OSR Systems concentrates in removing organic sediments from the deepest area of the pond first, unless stated otherwise. This is where the heaviest concentration of sediments exists and is causing the most environmental damage to the pond. If time is allowed, we will reach the original bottom and widen the area as close to the bottom of the banks as possible. If time is not available, we will remove as much sediment from the deepest area of the pond first, as this has proven to be more beneficial to the pond’s ecology. Our hours are regulated by Insurance and OSHA. The hourly rate of time and material charges are reflected herein this proposal.

Exclusions.
If silt containers are needed, OSR Systems is not responsible for preparation and grading of the discharge site or removal of sediments and restoration of the discharge site unless otherwise stated. Because we cover a vast geographic area, we have found it more economical for you to use your local landscapers or excavators whom some of you may be acquainted with in the immediate area for this work. If necessary, we will provide you with a comparison bid.
PROPOSAL
Pond: .65 acres
Sediment Removal, 2 ft: Center Bowl Area

Low Range
36 Hours @ $500/hr……………..….……………………………………….…………….…$18,000
1 silt container 60’cir X 125’ at $4,850 equals……………………………………………….$ 4,850
Mobilization and Equipment………………………………………………………………….$ 650
Low Range Total…….....……………………………………………………………………$23,500

Option
If you would like to remove sediments from specific areas of the pond:
Rate = $500 per hour; sediment removal of 37.5-50 liquid cubic yards per hour
You may choose a minimum of eight hours or higher.




Discharge Site Options and Conditions

Above, marked in red, is the proposed dredged area; marked in yellow is the proposed discharge site. OSR Systems removes 37.5-50 liquid cubic yards per hour. After drying, considering the shrink rate, this is equivalent to 6.25-7.50 hard-dried cubic yards left over in the discharge area per hour of sediment removal.

As stated on page one of the proposal (unless open discharge), OSR Systems is not responsible for the preparation of the discharge site, which includes the mulched or graded area for the silt containers. Your local landscapers or excavators can prepare the discharge site more economically. As for the leftover sediments in the discharge area, they can be graded and seeded over on site or the material can be hauled off site after it has hard-dried. There may be as much as 225 cubic yards in the discharge site to be hauled away; you will need to check with an excavation contractor in your area for the cost of this sediment removal after compression. OSR Systems is not responsible for any of these charges.

As reflected in our information packet, the organic sediments (bio-mass) located in the center bowl areas of the ponds are causing the most environmental damage to the pond. Once this material is removed, your ponds should react very favorably. Strict EPA and Federal Laws prohibit any disruption of the bank area of ponds and other water ways. OSR Systems will taper the bottom of these banks, but will not disturb the upper bank which is considered the shoreline. Exceptions are beach areas and pump stations.

**As you may be aware, our charges are based on time and material. If we finish your project early, you will only be charged for the hours worked. It also allows pond projects to be completed in stages instead of all at once. Please take the high range as a not-to-exceed.**
The estimate included is based on our 26 years of experience. Eighty percent of the time we execute the projects in the low range, 18 percent in the medium range, and two percent in the high range. The benefits of time and material or completing the projects in stages can be found in our information packet under “Competitive Bidding”.


If you have any questions or I can be of any further assistance, please call me at 608-547-7753.

Sincerely,


Rich Kohutko

stlhooked #452886 07/26/16 06:55 PM
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There are a couple options to saving fish...none are inexpensive.

One is to dig a holding pond and the second is to build a coffer dam inside your current pond basin after lowering the water level. The coffer can also become structure, plus deepening the current shallower end for an area for future sediment to settle in.

Personally, I'd opt for starting over, as it will be the overall least expensive.

Get permission from your neighbor below to let water flow and give him most of your "major fish". Breach the dam, and doze the silt out of the breech, haul the spoils off or landscape an area. Repair the breech and let it refill, then restock as wanted.




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