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Yes you are correct very subjective world we live in, however I'm just asking for an article where Grass Carp were a real success and helped a fishery become better, not where they saved money for homeowners who didn't want to pay for chemicals, not an article where they successfully managed the weeds, I would like an article if not numerous articles of where introduction of Grass Carp resulted in more and bigger fish being caught while maintaining a nice balance of weed growth. Most times I think what happens is certain homeowner says I want to "control" the weeds, lake manager says ok let's put some grass carp in, presto weeds are all gone every last one homeowner and lake manager look like heroes when now they have just set that lake up for massive algae blooms, stunted fish, dirtier water, did homeowner know that was he informed, I doubt it.

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I think it might depend upon the goals for the fishery? If trophy bass are the objective, then the eradication of plants might lead to lack of growth, after the LMB decimate the forage base. If trophy BG are in the works, then I'm a fan of reducing plant growth with extreme prejudice, and GC can help in that regard when used appropriately.

You're right, defining one's goals is paramount to success. And in many cases, I do believe GC are utilized as weed control without considering their impact on the fishing as a whole.


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If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
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Would it make a difference what vegetation you are dealing with? My pond got a very early infestation of Curly leafed pond weed. I put in 4 grass carp last year - one died. The pond weed went from bad to really bad this year. I added 4 more GC. I am not after eradication but in my pond (about 3/4 of an acre) there are probably way too many hiding places. I am hoping for a balance where they can keep the weed down but not entirely eliminate it. I also have some rock structure, some pine trees, cattails and bulrushes that supply more cover. I never knew how complex an issue it was to manage a pond. I'm a bit overwhelmed with the information I find here but I'm trying to absorb the things I need to know for my situation.


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If you have other underwater weeds in the pond that you want to keep, a light dosage of Fluridone in mid fall or early spring will knock back a lot if not all of the CLPW without affecting the other plants.


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Originally Posted By: Spicelanebass
Yes you are correct very subjective world we live in, however I'm just asking for an article where Grass Carp were a real success and helped a fishery become better, not where they saved money for homeowners who didn't want to pay for chemicals, not an article where they successfully managed the weeds, I would like an article if not numerous articles of where introduction of Grass Carp resulted in more and bigger fish being caught while maintaining a nice balance of weed growth. Most times I think what happens is certain homeowner says I want to "control" the weeds, lake manager says ok let's put some grass carp in, presto weeds are all gone every last one homeowner and lake manager look like heroes when now they have just set that lake up for massive algae blooms, stunted fish, dirtier water, did homeowner know that was he informed, I doubt it.


I'm not sure if anything would give you the conclusions you're wanting. "Not wanting to pay for chemicals"? What if a lake owner simply does not WANT to add a chemical? Chemicals have risks! Grass Carp have risks! YOUR version of success may be the same definition of total failure to another. If someone hires another to help control or manage a lake/pond, the person hired would (or should) determine as clearly as possible what that owner wants. EVERY lake and every owner are different...

If you want "larger bass growth", reducing weed cover chemically or with Grass carp will accomplish that, short term. Less plant cover means easier eating for LMB, BUT, it also means the forage fish have no place to hide and grow....so unless you spend big $$$ adding forage fish, that extra growth will be short lived and probably reversed soon. No ONE thing creates bigger fish for a sustained length of time.

Last edited by Rainman; 06/14/15 11:10 AM.


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Thanks Esshup, I have so much CLPW I couldn't tell you if there is ANY other submerged plant in there. I just ordered one of those weed cutters you toss out so I cant open up some lanes and maybe a small spot I can jump in when the temps hit 98. My homemade cutter brings up what seems to be either CLPW or FA. It's made from welded up from scrap metal and old bucksaw blades, it gets loaded with weeds and then just slides over the tops, time consuming to clear the blades and multiple passes needed to clear a very small area. I will keep your suggestion in mind as I monitor what the GC are doing.


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I'm neither a pond Pro nor professional writer.

I've never read an article re GC resulting in bigger bass. There may or may not be one somewhere. Nor have I ever read any published article about GC ruining a fishery.

However, I have, on 2 occasions, used them to clean up absolute infestations in neighbors unfishable ponds. Neither of those cases, that I'm aware of, saw any decline in the size of the fish. Actually, it allowed the bass to actually find prey and increased the numbers and sizes of all fish.

In another case I helped mostly eliminate them using a 22. After vegetation was mostly eliminated they became pellet hogs.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

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I just noticed in a post above that you initially said 250 GC + chemicals. It's hard to know what to attribute the loss of vegetation to. Chemicals can destroy vegetation a lot faster than GC. Every BOW is SO different from the next. There is a lot of science involved but I think it is art to process all the variables of fishing pressure, species in the environment, habitat, fertility, structure, depth, forage, stunting, overpopulation, water quality, exposure to sunshine, wind, vegetative species, steps taken to deal with problems, how draconian those measures are, goals for the fishery, the time you have to commit to it, whether you have help, whether the help you get is actually helpful, the size of the BOW, on and on. What I've concluded is that it is a constant process of measuring, observing, learning, applying what you've learned, monitoring the results, repeat, change and so forth. I don't think there is one formula that fits all cases, but there are big strategies that fit certain goals. I have really had my eyes opened by reading all the thoughtful posts of the people on this forum.

Last edited by FishyFishy; 06/16/15 08:56 AM.

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Ok here is another positive note on GC. I have a 1 acre pond only but I have put 5 GC in my pond in 2010. I have American pond weed and chara. I was told to put 12 in there I was like noooo way! There easy to add hard to take away! So I didn't want all my weeds gone just wanted some control of them. Well it's worked for me. I think who ever put the GC in your lake put way to many of them. They should a have started out with like 100 of them and waited to see what happened.

It's the whole pendulum thing. Yours is way to far one way so you want to correct and get it back in the middle and you end up swinging all the way to the other side! Now your in trouble again! It's easy to do and frustrating. I have learned in my short time SMALL changes can have BIG effects on your BOW! I learned this the hard way myself.

RC


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I never noticed grass carp being hard to catch. As a kid I learned to fish by catching carp at Silver Lake in Rehoboth Beach DE. That 60 acre lake is 3-5' deep the whole way through and has BG, Gizzard Shad, LMB, Eels, and some of the biggest grass carp you will ever see. There is absolutely no vegetation in the lake and if you take bread and make dough balls and put them on a big hook 1' under a bobber you are catching carp pretty easily, especially on the footbridge where parents take their kids to throw bread to the ducks and end up fattening up the carp. In the spring they splash around the shallows in their mating ritual and would be EASY targets for anyone with a gun. Silver lake also has a phenomenal LMB population, a few years ago the O2 levels dropped and you could see 5-8lb bass struggling ALL over the shorelines, there were so many big bass and you could just walk in and grab them, it was amazing... A few days later a rain storm restored the oxygen and the lake began to recover, three years later and it's back to producing 5+lb bass routinely. I think it is mostly due to the gizzard shad.


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Rocky:

Are you sure that the fish you were catching were Grass Carp?


and not a common or German carp?


(Images just yanked and pasted from the interweb)


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Greetings again....

Been working hard on the house. Off today... so I have some time to chat.

I am making progress with catfish removal. At least there has been nothing except big ones, so I assume they did not reproduce. Up to 51. Something is removing the bait on the trout line without getting caught. Should I use trebles?

And I did shoot one large Amur. Question: Anyone know someone who would like to come to Bloomfield and "hunt" Amurs?

Another is about electro shock to see what we actually have. Who does that and what kind of cost? I see that I can buy some kind of shocker for $150 or $250. Anyone "been there done that"?

Thanks for the help.


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I think good quality, safe, dependable fully equipped fish electroshockers cost a few to several thousand dollars to above $10K. Be leery of low cost units and with all electroshockers have your health insurance paid up since without training and experience your wife could become a widow. It is not something to be doing without safety training and understanding the specifics of water quality on the effects of voltage and current on both fish and humans. Safety devices on electroshokers are imperative.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 06/25/15 07:01 PM.

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Grass carp are the ISIS of the pond world kill them all.

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Originally Posted By: Spicelanebass
Grass carp are the ISIS of the pond world kill them all.


This is not true. Grass Carp are a tool and if used correctly they can and will help, but like anything if it's used wrong it can be bad.

I mean if you put 260 tiger muskies in your pond you would have issues also. Just a different kind of issue.

Everything is relative in a pond as to what and how you use it.

That's just like saying I hate snakes kill them all! Well I don't like them either but with out them what do you get? Way to many frogs and mice running all over the place! I made that mistake already!

There is a kinda of catch 22 to everything you do to your pond. Do this and this happens, do that other thing and then this will happen. You just have to decide which one you want to put up with more!

Sorry getting off subject here! smile

RC


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Originally Posted By: esshup
Rocky:

Are you sure that the fish you were catching were Grass Carp?


and not a common or German carp?


(Images just yanked and pasted from the interweb)


Now that I see the difference I think I have been mistaking common carp for grass carp my whole life...


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