Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations SUPRISE CATCH

Went to the pond to wet a line to check status and shape of fish since fi find red sore on some of the C&R CNBG from a neighbors lake this spring. Since puting out an automatic feeder they are fat and look good. Anyway back to the surprise: was dragging a tiny jig under a cork at dark, felt a tiny tap and reeled in a 2-1/2-3" BC. The crappie that I stocked this March were4-5" long then.... My question is where did this little feller come from... The crappie stocked were supposedly to young. Any one have any ideas where that guy come from?



Pat W

Apparently not.

Did you hand sort the crappie as they were stocked? Any chance of a few smaller individuals mixed in with the 4-5 inchers?

Mine did the same thing. They reproduced at a very young age and now I have piles of them.

Sprkplug
Did not hand sort them it would have to be tiny to be only 2-1/2" or so 7months later. Not sure of the growth rate of BC for 7 months. I was pleased to see it at this stage.

It shows to go ya ya just never know.

Pat W

Liquidsquid

I'm hoping to have piles of them soon to catch and release to the grease! Thinking may have to boost their food source since someone added LMB without my permission. Catching bass in the 10-12" size quite often. And see 3" bass running herd on what few gambusias that are left. I hope the CNBG can spawn their little hearts out to feed the bass and crappie fed.

Pat W

Just because your stocker fish look too small to spawn doesn't mean they aren't older than you think and sexually mature. Many hatcheries grade by size and not age. I.e. a 5 inch crappie from a hatchery could be 1 year old or a stunted 2 or 3 year old.

What Cecil said or an individual didn't grow at all. I caught a 12" CC from my pond 3 years after stocking. I panicked, thinking I had reproduction, then I saw the clipped adipose fin. It never grew.

Cecil
I hadn't thought of that possibility and I hope you're right cause I'm not sure how all this is going to play out with the untimely
Addition of LMB. Need more forage!

Pat W

Typically LMB and predators can overeat a persons wallet easily. If a person could stock enough forage fish, then they'd have to be careful not to exceed the carrying capacity of the pond. If you don't have one, get a digital scale. I am barely staying ahead of the LMB overeating the forage fish in my pond by removing between 20 and 30 pounds of LMB per year (of all sizes). I am also pellet feeding, and the LMB are pellet trained.

Esshup

I think I am seeing this first hand. Minnow population is almost non existent. Don't see any YOY CNBG just bass . Put out a minnow trap and caught 0 CNBG YOY hope those 800 now 5"+ gills will go crazy spawning this next spring.hate to spend $ on fathead minnows but also don't want the BC and now "my" LMB. to starve untill the spawn of next year. Wonder if there is any quick fix to take the heat off the CNBG and let them grow some.

Pat W

Wait until the water warms up in the spring and the fish get to pre-spawn mode and have the pond electroshocked (the fish will be in shallower water then). Remove all the LMB that are shocked up and a lot of the crappie.

Make sure you have roughly 20% of the surface area of the pond in cover where the YOY and juvenile fish can hide to help escape predation.

That's why it's so important to get all your ducks in a row in regards to building the pond, and get the forage base established before adding predators. If those things aren't accomplished, you'll be chasing your tail for a long time, and spending $$$$$ to do so where you probably would only have spent $$ to get it done. Well intentioned friends or neighbors can really cost you $$ without realizing what they are doing.

Esshup
I hav anout one acre of flooded timber and the brush that came with it along the creek bottom with high sides (gully) and also piles of cedar trees anchored around the shoreline on 3'-5' of water am planning on adding more through the fall and winter. Would you remove the LMB now if they were caught? Also would it be a good idea to supplement the crappies food source through the winter. Put 300 in this spring 4-5" long. Lake is 5ac.
Crappies and CNBG were going to be the only fish in pond till NEXT summer when LMB wer to be officially stocked- so much for plans
Pat W

In your 5 ac pond, what are your goals, and what are the amounts, size and species of each fish that you stocked (and when were they stocked), and what size and species of fish that were bucket stocked (and when were they stocked)? Didn't you say that the bucket stocked LMB pulled off a spawn already? Or was that someone else?

Esshup
Yes the LMB did pull off a huge spawn. U see hundreds of 3" LMB working the shoreline but no CNBG YOY. My goal is to have crappie, CNBG and a predator ( which someone put in early. pond was dug last November, it came up to 5' quick. Added gambusias to start then added 20lb of FHM in February. Water level came up to 10' in March, added 800 CNBG 200 RES 300 4-5" BC and 30 # FHMs . Then bucket added 50 adult CNBG from a neighbors pond to help speed up the forage fish. Early summer caught a 1# LMB. Began to notice YOY bass along shoreline 1-2" long. Knew then Houston We Have A Problem! Now I don't see any FHMs and very few gambusia along shoreline. Did see a small group of 1/4" fish cruising bank. I presume these are YOY CNBG. Should I remove all the bass I catch to give the CNBG time to spawn again in the spring. Few weeks ago I did see some 1-2" CNBG in cedar brush so I'm certain that they spawned . The stocked CNBG were3" when stocked now with the feeder going they are near 6" long. Did they spawn this fall also? If so there might be enough forage to make the winter. Have no way of knowing how many LMB were dumped in. They range in size 3"-12" that I have caught.

Pat W

Pat, when I stocked 2-3" BG in late March (partial pond full 2013)they got off a good spawn that summer here in Kansas. So I would think they also would have been able to do the same thing if not more so in Texas.

Pat, with that stocking rate, I'd definately remove every LMB that could be netted during an electro shock survey. What you have is a perfect recipe for a LMB stunted pond, and at 5 acres, it will be difficult to get ahead of the curve. Since the LMB are large enough to pull off a spawn, stocking enough CNBG to become a good forage base will be very expensive because you should stock CNBG that are larger than the largest LMB can eat. In a 5 ac pond, minimum number of CNBG that I would consider stocking would have been 5,000 fingerlings. Typically you want 10-30:1 CNBG to LMB ratio for an initial stocking rate.

The BCP in there is the wild card. With their boom and bust spawning cycle, and early spawn timing, they will be eating YOY BG and LMB.

Not seeing any YOY CMBG or any other forage fish in there is alarming for such a young pond. That tells me that the predator base is way larger than what the forage base can support.

The pond is young enough, and really, there isn't that much $$ worth of fish in there (I'm guessing less than $1,000.00). I'd give some thoughts to draining it down, killing it and starting over. Before it started to re-fill I'd put signs around the pond every 50 yds saying that any persons that are caught putting fish in the pond without permission will be shot on sight, and if survive, will be sued to recover the expenses of draining and restocking the pond.

With the lack of rain to fill the pond back up(6' low now) i don't think that is a good option right now- however electroshock is an option- and catch and keep everyone caught.

Pat W

They may have spawned along with the adults but between the BC and LMB not sure they can keep up


Pat W

Got to deal with the hand that was delt
That's what makes this fun, a good challenge

Then I'd definately e-shock the pond, take the time to capture every LMB that you see and then probably stock many more CNBG upon the results of the e-shock survey.

Esshup

That sounds like a plan. Do you think one could fish out the bass 10-12" and stock CNBG while the tiny bass grow? The LMB really cooperate as far as biting. Daughter is engaged so $ is at a premium right now.

You'll thin their numbers, but in a 5 ac pond, you'll never get them all. Plus LMB don't always strike lures, so e-shocking is a more effecient way to remove a large amount of them quickly. Since they are large enough to pull off a spawn, have it done when the LMB are in shallower water but before they spawn in the Spring. Plus you will also be shocking up smaller LMB, so remove them too. If $ is tight, then you'll be hard pressed to stock the correct amount of forage fish. The e-shock boat will be the best use of the available funds for now, then once the majority of LMB are removed it will allow any forage fish that are in the pond and any that you can stock a much better chance of surviving.

Do the math. EVERY LMB in there; to add one pound of weight needs to eat approximately 10# of forage fish. See why removing LMB is more effecient than stocking forage fish?

Most likely, if you don't get ahead of the growing LMB population now, and they start to stunt, it will take 2, maybe up to 4 years to get the pond turned around after it is e-shocked.

Does anyone have a roundabout cost figure for e- shocking a 5 ac ond

Pat W

Roughly $750-1250 plus mileage. Includes shocking for several hours and a report.