|
Forums36
Topics40,962
Posts557,975
Members18,503
| |
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
|
|
|
7 members (Sunil, catscratch, jludwig, sprkplug, canyoncreek, gehajake, STG),
1,146
guests, and
335
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 143
|
OP
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 143 |
I've been reading about all the different types of bluegill.
redear, green, bluegill, Hybrid bluegill....
What's the difference and what are the pros and cons of each variety?
Can any of them successfully be stocked with RBT?
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,534 Likes: 842
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent  Lunker
|
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,534 Likes: 842 |
I've been reading about all the different types of bluegill.
redear, green, bluegill, Hybrid bluegill....
What's the difference and what are the pros and cons of each variety?
Can any of them successfully be stocked with RBT? Look in the Common Pond Q&A (archives). There is a thread called Common pond fish primer (sunfish edition). Most, if not all of those questions are answered there.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 143
|
|
OP
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 143 |
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 143
|
|
OP
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 143 |
So I read the posts on sunfish which gave great pics and descriptions of the fish. Thanks.
So what are the pros and cons of each type. I see some reproduce faster than others. What about aggressiveness/temperament, or compatibility with RBT?
Is one better with swimmers than the other?
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame Lunker
|
|
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2 |
All sunfish prefer water temps that reach well into the 70's or even 80's for proper growth. If your pond stays cool enough to support RBT year round, it likely wouldn't produce desired results for any sunfish species.
As far as aggressiveness, the common species of sunfish in order of aggressiveness:
HBG
GSF
BG
RES
RES would be the best choice for not having to worry about them nipping at swimmers. The other species are likely to nip.
As far as pros and cons on each one:
HBG(BGxGSF): aggressive biters, excellent for use in a put and take fishery, 95% or so male, so limited reproduction. Limited reproduction means they are poor choice to use as a forage base, subsequent generations(F2, F3, etc) are likely to produce less than desirable offspring. Quick initial growth rates to a bit over 1 pound, but rarely go over 1.5 pounds.
GSF: aggressive, large mouth compared to other species, more fusiform shape so they make good bass forage, tend to be out competed in a healthy LMB/BG pond. Can compete with juvenile bass for food sources. Tendency to stunt in poor conditions. Rarely reaches 1 pound or 10".
BG: Very prolific and make excellent forage for LMB, often the back bone of the forage bass in most LMB ponds. If managed correctly, can easily reach 1 pound, regularly reach 1.5 pounds and rarely reach 2 pounds. If not managed with LMB or another high intensity management program, can stunt and over populate because of their prolific nature.
RES: Not prolific, difficult to catch outside of spawning season, commonly grow to 1 pound in ponds with 2 pound fish not unheard of and a rare 3 pound fish possible. Require warmer water than other sunfish species often dying in winter, especially in smaller ponds where temperatures can swing quickly. Fill a slightly different niche than BG and thus do not completely compete with them for food resources. Have specialized teeth(pharyngeal plates)in their throat to crush shells of snails, clams and other hard shelled organisms. This allows them to feed on items other sunfish cannot. Difficult to pellet train and thus mostly have to have them rely on natural feed.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 143
|
|
OP
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 143 |
Thanks for the detailed info!
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1
Hall of Fame Lunker
|
Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1 |
All sunfish prefer water temps that reach well into the 70's or even 80's for proper growth. If your pond stays cool enough to support RBT year round, it likely wouldn't produce desired results for any sunfish species.
As far as aggressiveness, the common species of sunfish in order of aggressiveness:
HBG
GSF
BG
RES
RES would be the best choice for not having to worry about them nipping at swimmers. The other species are likely to nip.
As far as pros and cons on each one:
HBG(BGxGSF): aggressive biters, excellent for use in a put and take fishery, 95% or so male, so limited reproduction. Limited reproduction means they are poor choice to use as a forage base, subsequent generations(F2, F3, etc) are likely to produce less than desirable offspring. Quick initial growth rates to a bit over 1 pound, but rarely go over 1.5 pounds.
GSF: aggressive, large mouth compared to other species, more fusiform shape so they make good bass forage, tend to be out competed in a healthy LMB/BG pond. Can compete with juvenile bass for food sources. Tendency to stunt in poor conditions. Rarely reaches 1 pound or 10".
BG: Very prolific and make excellent forage for LMB, often the back bone of the forage bass in most LMB ponds. If managed correctly, can easily reach 1 pound, regularly reach 1.5 pounds and rarely reach 2 pounds. If not managed with LMB or another high intensity management program, can stunt and over populate because of their prolific nature.
RES: Not prolific, difficult to catch outside of spawning season, commonly grow to 1 pound in ponds with 2 pound fish not unheard of and a rare 3 pound fish possible. Require warmer water than other sunfish species often dying in winter, especially in smaller ponds where temperatures can swing quickly. Fill a slightly different niche than BG and thus do not completely compete with them for food resources. Have specialized teeth(pharyngeal plates)in their throat to crush shells of snails, clams and other hard shelled organisms. This allows them to feed on items other sunfish cannot. Difficult to pellet train and thus mostly have to have them rely on natural feed. CJ, As always your responses are in depth and show your extensive knowledge. However I beg to differ that bluegill will regularly reach 1.5 pounds even with proper management. But perhaps in a longer growing season like your state of Virginia vs. my state of Indiana? For me 1.25 pounds is more realstic in my pond that is male only and managed for big bluegills. My largest ever is only 1 lb. 7 oz.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980 Likes: 14
Ambassador Lunker
|
Ambassador Lunker
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980 Likes: 14 |
I think this may illustrate the difference between ultimate size potential, and readily obtainable size of Bluegills. I have commented before on the lack of photos out there that show anglers with multiple large bluegills (> 1.5 lbs) Lots of outstanding single fish, but few instances where the pond consistently turns out giant fish in large or even moderate numbers.
If it were that easy to produce 1.5 lb bluegills, shouldn't we see lots more of them in our managed ponds?
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,534 Likes: 842
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
|
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,534 Likes: 842 |
There may be more 1.5 BG swimming around in ponds that are managed for big BG than we realize. Cecil has taken out a number of fish from his pond that were over a pound to sell to other taxidermists. How big would they have gotten in another year or two? The ones that he's caught and released; how much have they learned from getting yanked from the water?
How many times has a BG that weighes over a pound and a half been caught already? Could they be in the ponds but smart enough not to eat that piece of food that has the string coming from it?
I've seen BG almost bump an offering only to turn away, both live bait and artificial. How many times does that happen that we don't see?
I agree that BG 1.5 pounds and larger are not common, but I think that in ponds that are specifically managed for large BG, that are over 5 years old, where the fish are on a feeding program, they are more common than we think.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980 Likes: 14
Ambassador Lunker
|
|
Ambassador Lunker
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980 Likes: 14 |
I think that could be part of the explanation. On other sites I have offered my opinion that in order to catch big bluegills, you first need to fish in water that contains big bluegills....certainly all BOW do not harbor such fish. Secondly, you need to fish unpressured, unwary, and unconditioned fish. Those are usually much easier to catch.
Still, with the number of folks here at PB who are actively engaged in managing their ponds, coupled with the years that have passed since the "How to grow big bluegills" formula was introduced, shouldn't we start seeing numbers of these fish being caught? I have high hopes that George and AL will shortly begin posting photos of some giants (2lb + ??) Certainly their efforts thus far are very encouraging.
I wonder what percentage of a certain year class of bluegills might be expected to make it to 2 lbs, or even 1.5 lbs, given the type of ideal conditions promoted by the pondmeisters here at PB?
Last edited by sprkplug; 10/05/14 08:51 AM.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,712 Likes: 3
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
|
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,712 Likes: 3 |
Tony, that is so true -- and elementary. ... in order to catch big bluegills, you first need to fish in water that contains big bluegills... I've actually lost friends over not wanting to waste my time going where there are no reasonable fish to catch!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,312 Likes: 300
Moderator
|
|
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,312 Likes: 300 |
Tony, if I don't hit 2# by next Spring, I'll be stocking Yellow Perch. This "trophy" BG deal has has been my main focus for 2 years now. Water, habitat, cover, staggered feeding schedules and food sizes, I'm trying it all. What has happened is tons of 10+" CNBG that hold in an area that was created just for them. I'm very happy with the results, but to me, getting one 2# is a hundred times harder than getting 50 1#'s.
I have learned that length is not a determining factor in weight with CNBG. I've caught 5-6 CNBG this year that were over 11", and none of them were among the heaviest caught.
This next Spring I'll start aging by scales, and hope to find the heaviest CNBG at 3-4 yo. That "should" give me 2 more years to add more weight on them before any decline.
AL
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1
Hall of Fame Lunker
|
Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1 |
FireIsHot,
Can you get good annular rings on scales that far south?
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,312 Likes: 300
Moderator
|
|
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,312 Likes: 300 |
I'm gonna try. I had read sprkplug's mention of it last month, and it seemed like something worth trying. I've only stocked CNBG 3 times in 14 years, so I really don't know how to accurately age my fish, and get them back in the water with no lingering effects. I'm very open to other suggestions though.
I've got nice CNBG, but I'm just not sure if they're lingering around, or still actively growing and younger.
AL
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980 Likes: 14
Ambassador Lunker
|
|
Ambassador Lunker
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980 Likes: 14 |
It's amazing to me the number of anglers who will fish the same BOW over and over, catching smaller, often stunted bluegills, with the assumption that because the smaller fish are there, the larger ones must be too.
Al, I don't know what you are planning on using to view the scales, but an old microfiche reader works very well for me.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,312 Likes: 300
Moderator
|
|
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,312 Likes: 300 |
Tony, thanks. I've been looking on Craigslist, but haven't found a microscope that I wanted yet. I'll check for old microfiche readers. I bet I can find one in Dallas.
AL
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980 Likes: 14
Ambassador Lunker
|
|
Ambassador Lunker
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980 Likes: 14 |
Shot from the microfiche reader. This one was aged at PB V by Jason Breeggemann, of SDSU. Six years old. It's tough.....open to interpretation many times, at least where my efforts are concerned. 
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1
Hall of Fame Lunker
|
Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1 |
When I was a biologist aid we were told that aging by scales is an art. Of course the biologist sent us to the shed to mend gill nets and didn't teach us squat on scales. One of the other biologists said we were getting ripped of experience.
I like the ear stones better. Seem easier to read but of course you have to kill the fish.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,499 Likes: 266
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
|
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,499 Likes: 266 |
It can be done by spines as well - non-lethal.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,312 Likes: 300
Moderator
|
|
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,312 Likes: 300 |
ewest, thank you. I'll research that as well.
AL
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,499 Likes: 266
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
|
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,499 Likes: 266 |
Last edited by ewest; 10/06/14 12:41 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,534 Likes: 842
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
|
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,534 Likes: 842 |
Very similar to reading growth rings in a tree trunk.
|
|
|
Moderated by Bill Cody, Bruce Condello, catmandoo, Chris Steelman, Dave Davidson1, esshup, ewest, FireIsHot, Omaha, Sunil, teehjaeh57 |
|
.gif)
