Pond Boss Forums AQUATIC VEGETATION Balance of plants in the environment Going to add cattails..

I know that most of the people on this forum feel that cattails are the Devil...I have always liked the look of them and most of the things that come along with them...

I have been trying for a year to get some rooted vegetation started with very little luck...Most of the banks are pretty true to a 3 to 1 slope with riprap over landscaping cloth going down in the water several feet...The hardy lilies I have started are in tubs and the iris is at the waters edge in one little corner... The lilies get no more then a couple of pads before the turtles or something snip the tubers... The iris is doing okay, but the water level has been up a little with the rain we have had so they are just kinda hanging and holding their own..

I am guessing I am going to have to remove most of the riprap and cut the landscaping cloth back to even give the cattails a chance... The goals are to try to get some of the nutrients out of the pond and get ahead of this planktonic algae I have been fighting since moving in...I have been doing my best to remove all floating mats of FA and limit the nutrients from entering the pond...My neighbors are using fertilizer on their yards, but they are using no P products...

I guess the major question is am I going about this the wrong way?.. What comes with cattails that I am not thinking about?.. Are they going to remove enough nutrients to be worth it?.. How deep do they really grow, have read in less than 18" of water?..Is this a better plant that for these goals that will be just a marginal rooted plant?

That sounds like a lot of work, removing rip-rap for cattails!

A question for the experts: in this situation (new pond, no P in run-off), is the limestone rip-rap itself the likely source of phosphorous? Is a phosphorous-binding product more likely to work than using plants to trap it out?

Also, do you have FA for the entire growing season? We have a lot in the spring but by mid-late summer it's all chara and APW -- much easier to remove.

My orthoP test resuts came back at .079 and Bill Cody checked my nitrates when I sent him a sample of the blue-green algae and it was 1.1-1.2... The n to p ratio is definitely below the 20 to 1 ratio and closer to where the blue-green thrives per many articles I have read..I have a gallon of 28 liquid N in my shed but can't get the blue green cut back far enough to add for fear of it really blowing up... I did have my yard fertilized all the way to the edge of the pond with a 32-0-8 slow release N fertilizer per Ted Lea's suggestion on the fert...Normally don't do around the pond... Needless to say the rain we have had I am sure my nitrate level is up, but haven't had a chance to get a good nitrate tester yet..

Also talking to people about phoslock or even alum, but they say my P reading is really not that high.. And binding might eliminate enough that I can't get a bloom started at all?..

As for FA, yes I pretty much have it the full season...

This pond is right out my back door and I have two little boys that want to be in it constantly and their mom has put a stop to it because of the way it looks and smells...

I'd look at getting some underwater plants established before I'd go with cattails. I think you'll get more bang for your buck that way. Take my personal pond for instance.

Last year during the beginning of the season I had a bloom going, visibility about 36". EWM and Curly Leaf Pondweed blossomed before the GTG at my place, and clarity went to about 7'. No real FA problem. I hit it with Fluridone, and the EWM & CLPW died about 2 weeks before everybody showed up. FA exploded.

This year, no EWM, but CLPW made it's appearance again from the turions that were left behind last year. No EWM. Water clarity went from 3' early spring to 7' after the plants were going strong. FA went from "boy I should really treat this" to "where'd it go?"

Now that the CLPW is dying back, the bloom is getting established again. Visibility is now less than 3'. Now FA is starting to show up again after being gone for the past few months too.

I don't mind a little FA, it's this stupid blue green placktonic bloom that keeps surfacing that is bothering me.. It looks like their is a crap ton of suspended particles and then WHAM, spilled paint all over the surface of the pond.. I have been treating with sodium percarbonate but I only get maybe a week if lucky of no major surface film.. I have started a bacteria program and trying to get some rooted plants established, but things aren't going as well I as think they should... Maybe i should quit my job and just spend every minute if every day working on this thing... That is what my mind is doing anyways!!!

Just about ready to use Bill Cody's silver bullet formula!!'

I also introduced cattails on purpose, wide and thin leafed, and aggressive white lilies, spatterdock, coontail, wild yellow and blue water irises, mussels and ramshorn snails. Also red, yellow and pink hardy lilies. Corkscrew eel grass was going well until the pond water level dropped and killed a nice bed I had going. There are still some in the pond and Bill Cody introduced me to a Red Tip eel grass that should be in the pond but I haven't located any yet. The interaction between the pond plants is interesting. Right now I am watching Curly Leaf Pond Weed that we knows dies back in the heat of the summer but what I think I am seeing is that it collapses as though it is weakened at the bottom of the plant while it doesn't look like the leaves are dying. That's interesting.

The problem with cattails is invasiveness. Not just from runners, but also from seed. There are domesticated cattails that might be an alternative if you want to avoid the invasive types.

Sean, if you want plants, come on over anytime and bring buckets to take them back home. Plant them where they can get sunlight in the water and they'll take off.

Thanks, might take you up on that...

Got rid of mom while you can..

I like these better than cattails for numerous reasons. Those darn muskrats love'em too

http://www.kestersnursery.com/New_Folder/fs_sala2.pdf

Also consider these:
native, noninvasive, easier to manage, do not grow as deep as cattails:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iris_versicolor
https://plants.usda.gov/core/profile?symbol=IRVE2
Pickerel weed
http://www.fcps.edu/islandcreekes/ecology/pickerelweed.htm
http://plants.usda.gov/core/profile?symbol=poco14

I think both will grow in the limestone rocks hydroponically and definitely will grow in the beach sand or small stones.

Dwarf cattails are also available online.

Bill:

Does that Varigated Sweet Flag that I got from you a number of years ago flower?

Sean, I have Pickerel Weed, Arrowhead, Blue Flag Iris (both sourced here in Indiana and in Texas), and another Arrowhead type of plant that has oval leaves. That plant is not supposed to be growing in anything warmer than zone 6, but it hasn't died out in my pond and it's been there for about 4 years. It was introduced as an experiment thinking that it'd die out, but it hasn't.

Plus other underwater weeds.

The variegated sweet flag does produce flowers but they are not colorful and the shape of a tiny (1.7") ear of corn.

Thanks Bill! They are spreading, but very slowly. That's a good thing!

I know a guy about 3 hours south of you that applies Alum fairly often, and well!

I heard tell he got a fancy new custom truck, too!

Sean, I sent you a PM about a lightbulb that just turned on....