Jd, this is what I was thinking and want to achieve too. Keeping it in check has been difficult, probably because my population showed up in the infancy of stocking. I have nothing against GSF, and decided early on my route of action was to try to manage them. Right now my experience says: beware, it will be work and headaches, but to early to say if I can or will succeed. In return tho, I have been learning more than if it was easy, and I like that part the most.
The GSF will only spawn annually. And 99% of them will be eaten. But then, only about 1% of fish ever reach maturity.
Admittedly, I'm a GSF fan. They outfight a BG every time.
When my uncle built his 5 acre lake about 9yrs ago. There was a small pond that got flooded in the process. We stocked CNBG, RE, FHM, LMB, and a small amount of Hybrid Crappie.
In the first few years we caught A LOT of GSF. More of them than any other fish if I had to guess. All of them with that large gsf mouth. I have fished this lake a bunch this year and not caught one fish with that large mouth. What I am catching with some frequency now are large crosses like this one. Picture does not do this fish justice. The coloring on the fins was beautiful. It was 10" long, weighed 13oz, hit a big skitterwalk topwater lure and pulled like mule.
It ain't much of story if you don't have pictures!
"So if I could keep my population in check I could have a some really nice GSF & BG & probably some hybrid BG or res?"
That is kind of my hopes also.
I've pulled well over 100 out of my old pond (probably closer to 150)with 90% being what appears to me as last years spawn at 3.5-4" long. They are not very tall or thick but man will they hit a #10 hook with about anything on it. After getting tired of putting real bait on the hook, I just cut off about a quarter inch of black plastic worm and that seemed to work just as well. Don't even use the reel, just use it more like an old cane pole. No bobber, just flip the hook out about 5 feet and drag it in at moderate speed or drag it along the bank a couple feet out in the water.
Seems like they "hit" better moving the bait with some speed. Like they don't even bother to check out what it is. If it moves, bite it. Caught a few on a bare hook, but success rate was way down, so they needed some sort of bait to go for it.
I just hope to get them thinned out enough so they don't hammer the BG and RES spawn quite as bad. May be a hopeless cause, but it was kind of fun tossing the line and pulling in a fish every few casts.
Jd, this is what I was thinking and want to achieve too. Keeping it in check has been difficult, probably because my population showed up in the infancy of stocking. I have nothing against GSF, and decided early on my route of action was to try to manage them. Right now my experience says: beware, it will be work and headaches, but to early to say if I can or will succeed. In return tho, I have been learning more than if it was easy, and I like that part the most.
It seems to me, the northern guys have a much larger level of problems and general disgust with GSF than the southern guys. I sit pretty much in the middle.
Would it be correct to say that GSF cause more problems for northern ponds than southern ponds?
If so, would it be because the difference in spawning between the GSF and BG? Southern ponds get more BG spawns than northern latitudes?
I'm just grasping at straws here and only going by what I have observed from reading threads here on PBF. But it seems like southern guys don't have the hatred for the GSF like the northern guys.
Seems I read somewhere the world record for GSF is just over two pounds. I bet a GSF that size would put up a nice fight.
The GSF will only spawn annually. And 99% of them will be eaten. But then, only about 1% of fish ever reach maturity.
Admittedly, I'm a GSF fan. They outfight a BG every time.
When my uncle built his 5 acre lake about 9yrs ago. There was a small pond that got flooded in the process. We stocked CNBG, RE, FHM, LMB, and a small amount of Hybrid Crappie.
In the first few years we caught A LOT of GSF. More of them than any other fish if I had to guess. All of them with that large gsf mouth. I have fished this lake a bunch this year and not caught one fish with that large mouth. What I am catching with some frequency now are large crosses like this one. Picture does not do this fish justice. The coloring on the fins was beautiful. It was 10" long, weighed 13oz, hit a big skitterwalk topwater lure and pulled like mule.
That looks very similar to the hybrids I get in my main pond. Was supposed to be straight BG, but obviously a few hybrids sneaked into the stocking. I have BG just as long in length as the hybrids but the hybrids are "thicker" so generally heavier than the BG of similar length. ALL the hybrids I've caught so far have been some of the biggest of my sunfish. Have not caught a small hybrid in the bunch. They have probably ate their share of FHM's, not to mention feed.
I like them, and hope I get some RES and/or BG xGSF hybrids in my old pond naturally.
How big will a GSF get? Right now mine all hang out right in feeder next to a cattail clump. They know there's LMB cause they hit the feed & head for whatever cover there is. I can catch the same size BG in the same spot & Dave is right a GSF is fun to catch even if it's only 4".
The GSF will only spawn annually. And 99% of them will be eaten. But then, only about 1% of fish ever reach maturity.
Admittedly, I'm a GSF fan. They outfight a BG every time.
When my uncle built his 5 acre lake about 9yrs ago. There was a small pond that got flooded in the process. We stocked CNBG, RE, FHM, LMB, and a small amount of Hybrid Crappie.
In the first few years we caught A LOT of GSF. More of them than any other fish if I had to guess. All of them with that large gsf mouth. I have fished this lake a bunch this year and not caught one fish with that large mouth. What I am catching with some frequency now are large crosses like this one. Picture does not do this fish justice. The coloring on the fins was beautiful. It was 10" long, weighed 13oz, hit a big skitterwalk topwater lure and pulled like mule.
Welcome to the world of hybrid sunfish. In my experience a BG x GSF hybrid will put a similar sized BG to shame when it comes to angling excitement. Just a heavy, solid fish on the end of your line.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
I I have just discovered that I have GSF in my pond. They are 2-4" now. About a month ago I noticed I had some very aggressive fish feeding right next to my feeder and they have doubled in size since then. I caught 2 and took to my fish guy Friday and confirmed they were a bred down hybrid BG. Don't have a clue on how they got in my pond but so far only notice a few of them. He gave me a minnow trap so hopefully I can catch them. I have lots of big BG (8+") and LMB so hopefully they can keep them in check. Any other ideas on getting rid of them?
A couple of pictures of the size I have been catching and the lures. The first one was in the larger range and I missed him a few times before catching it. The jig head had a plastic lure on it and about a #8 size hook. Was getting lots of hits but not many hooking up. The second picture was with just a small piece of plastic lure cut off with scissors on a #10 hook. Caught 20 in the 3-4" range in about 40 minutes on that setup.
Too bad I don't have any #12 hooks to try. Neither one of the two local outlets had any hooks that small. I need to find some.
Interesting thing is, occasionally I will hook up with a 7-8" hybrid or BG (that I put in this pond from my other pond) with this same small hook setup. Note third picture.
The two smaller fish may have been pure GSF; or very close if not pure GSF. Their parents may have been mixed in with your HBG depending on how and where your HBG were produced.
Last edited by Bill Cody; 06/30/1403:46 PM.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
The small ones came from stock that was in the original pond. There was only a puddle in the middle left, but enough water to hold GSF and BH. In hindsight, I should have killed the remaining water. But that was before I found this forum and was not even sure what this pond was going to become.
The larger fish likely came from my other pond because as I catch the small number of hybrids I'm finding in the main big pond, I transfer them to this old refurbished pond.
I've only caught a couple (that I am sure of) fairly good size GSF that I have to assume was some of the original stock that spawned all these small ones.
It is just that as some of the hybrids have a lot of GSF characteristics, I'm starting to second guess myself on their identification. If they are hybrids, I want them in there. But if it happens to be a big GSF that is responsible for spawning all these 3-4" ones I'm catching now, I want it out. That is the tough part for me, determining if it is a GSF or a hybrid with a lot of GSF characteristics.
If I have any natural hybrids produced (I hope so) the timing of my stocking of other fish (BG and RES) would likely only be very small fry from a late spawn last fall or tiny fry from this spring spawn. The 3-4" size I'm catching pretty sure were spawned before I put any other fish in. I only put FHM in that pond early spring 2013 and no BG or RES till late summer/fall of that year (BG 5-6", RES 3"). So I would think the GSF broodstock that spawned the ones I am catching had to be there from that small puddle of water left when I cleaned the pond out.
GSF at 1 year old and 3"-4" long will usually spawn at that age and size. Look again at the pictures of the fish in the 1st picture in your post above. Notice the emerald or blue-green streaks on the gill cover just below the eye. Those noticeable and distinct streaks are characteristic of GSF. When you catch any fish with those streaks feel confident to remove that fish as a GSF or one with lots of GSF genetics.
Last edited by Bill Cody; 06/30/1406:43 PM.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
We have a .2 acre near the house that dad stocked with HBG (Dunn's truck) and a few channel cats probably 13 years ago. He did this right after he had the pond dug and it filled up. His idea was to have something close to the house to easily take the kids fishing. It was a total success the first few years as we caught some really nice HBG and CC. The kids had a blast. A decade later all we catch out of it are small GSF from about 3"-6" like snrub showed in his pics. I'm ready to get some OTS BG from Todd and put in there to change the gene pool. Maybe a couple of female CB LMB too.
It ain't much of story if you don't have pictures!
IMO Ross you need several bass (12-20) in the pond to keep the offspring of the HBG controlled. Essentially you want all the HBG offspring eliminated and every year or three add some more pure strain HBG to keep the strain up to date regarding fast growing hybrid genetics.
Last edited by Bill Cody; 06/30/1408:16 PM.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
IMO Ross you need several bass (12-20) in the pond to keep the offspring of the HBG controlled. Essentially you want all the HBG offspring eliminated and every year or three add some more pure strain HBG to keep the strain up to date regarding fast growing hybrid genetics.
Bill, I wouldn't care if the HBG were eliminated entirely. I'd be happy with CNBG, RE and a few LMB to help control their numbers.
It ain't much of story if you don't have pictures!
With a small 0.2 ac pond it is easy to renovate and start over with only the species that are stocked and do not have to deal with various problematic fishes that cause problems and interfere with your goals.
Last edited by Bill Cody; 06/30/1408:31 PM.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
