Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain Am I going to stunt my bluegill?

I'm worried about stunting my bluegill. Here's a history on the pond. It's probably just under 2 acres located in east-central North Carolina.

The dam was closed up in December 2012.
March 1, 2013 started with 700 CNBG 1.5"-2.5", 300 RES 3"-4" and 10 lb. FHM.
August 17, 2013 added 95 LMB 4"-5".
November 1, 2013 added 15 HSB 6"-12".

I added the wipers because of what I perceived as a FHM overpopulation. If you stood still in the water for just a minute they would swarm all over you like mosquitoes.

I did a very un-scientific survey this past weekend. The largest BG I come up with are about 6" now. The LMB are 8"-9". I can't report on the RES as they are less than cooperative. These growth rates for the first generation seem about on par from my understanding.

My concern is based on what I can see from the shore when feeding. For every large bluegill I can see there must be at least 10 or 20 in the 2" to 3" range. I worry that I may have waited too long to introduce the LMB and the CNBG got too much of a head start. My primary objective was to grow some large bream. So I'm looking for opinions on if I might have a problem. I was thinking that if I were to add some more LMB right now I could get away with some more 4"-5" and they would be mostly safe from the existing bass population. I really don't care if the bass were a little stunted. I can fish them back into equilibrium but not the bluegill.

I don't really have a regular feeding program. I just enjoy watching them and seeing how things are progressing.

Hi OGK

Good to hear from you! Stocking strategies should follow one's goal for the fishery: Trophy BG, trophy LMB, or balanced fishery. If you are focused on raising trophy LMB, your description sounds as if you're off to a solid start. The tradeoff in many cases for trophy LMB fisheries are overpopulated and somewhat stunted BG. Unfortunately a trophy LMB fishery wasn't your original goal.

Trophy BG fisheries feature heavy populations of LMB which typically bottleneck in the 8-14" range and are low WR due to competition for forage [BG]. This allows the BG that do survive to prosper due to abundant forage opportunities and lack of competition [zooplankton, invertebrates, pellets etc.].

At this time it appears the fishery isn't skewed for trophy BG - so you have some decisions to make. I'm not a LMB expert, but here are my immediate thoughts:

1. Alter goals and aim for a trophy LMB fishery - this is the direction in which you're currently heading. Advice: Do nothing, but consider annual HSB ladder stocking of 10-15 annually depending your your harvest program.

2. Alter goals and try to achieve a balanced fishery. In this case I'd consider increasing your LMB population by stocking another 25-50 this Spring to help hammer YOY BG, and increase your HSB by ladder stocking 15-25 annually. The HSB will help control BG population 1-4" especially when they hit that magic 20" range.

3. Retain your trophy BG goal and turn things around by stocking another 100 LMB this Spring/Summer. Follow that up with HSB ladder stocking 25 annually. Once your LMB hit the 12-15" mark you'll need to grow your HSB in cages to a size safer from LMB predation [8-10"]. This can be achieved by purchasing 1" HSB from Arkansas through mail in the Spring and feeding them until late Autumn.

We'd love to see some photos of your LMB - see if you can get lengths/weights so we can help determine WR. With the abundant forage present [BG/FHM] I imagine they are doing very well and are well over 100.

Let us know what goal you decide to pursue and we will help you arrive there!

Is your # 1 goal to grow big bluegills?

TJ- Is it your experience that HSB will still go after that size BG if you feed regularly? Should he feed if he tries your recommendation?

OGK- Have you considered an automatic feeder?

The other thing that we need to find out is how much cover is in the pond for the forage fish (BG) to hide in to escape predation? For a "balanced" pond, cover rates of around 20% of the surface acreage is what you're shooting for. Less than that, and BG predation will be easier for the LMB.

Still, the initial stocking ratio of 10:1 isn't too far off, depending on the cover in the pond.

How much food are you feeding per day, and what kind of food is it?

Like Dave said, what are the goals for the pond?

Hey OGK,

Here is one thing I have learned with my LMB, BG, RES, HSB pond. You have exact same setup as I do it sounds like.

It took to about the 3 year mark before I started to see bigger BG. 7 to 8 inch that is, but I feed also. AM600.

Anyway last year I was in the boat and I had 2 and 3 inch BG swarming the boat while we were in it. If you put your bait in the water when laying your pole down in the boat something would grab it! I seemed to have waaaaay to many 2 to 3 inch BG in my pond out in the deep water to mind you.

So at the end of the last year around September I introduced 2 mind you just 2!! 14 inch LMB. I knew they were young and I got them form a good source so I figured they would adapt just fine. Ok fast forward to this year.

I now go out in the boat and I don't see a BG 1. The swarms of 20 and 30 BG are gone! I mean just like that. My point here is LMB are eating machines! If you want to get rid of some of your smaller BG your WILL NOT need to many more right sized LMB to do it! My pond is 1 acre and I only used 2. I noticed you said your pond is about 2 acres. So if you can get 4 or 5 LMB from someone or some place you know they are decent and young fish at about 13 to 14 inches long that would go a long ways in taking care of a LOT of your BG. This is what I did and it worked for me. Keep in mind a lot of folks will tell you not to transfer fish from 1 bow to another and I agree with that for the most part. But if said LMB are young enough and you know there good quality this will work. What you don't want to do is transfer larger LMB that are older to another BOW as most times they won't make it. They seem to have trouble getting used to another BOW once they get to a certain age. Anyhow I rambled enough. Keep in mind this is just what I did. Doesn't mean it's a fix all for everyone, but it has helped my situation.

RC

Here are some representative pictures. The bass pic is from almost a month ago.

bluegill
bass

I do need to get a bump board and scale to get some real WR's.

Thanks RC,

I did wonder about that. Maybe those LMB just aren't quite up to the job yet. I have noticed a marked decrease in the minnow population. Last fall when I fed, the FHM's would be all over the pellets even though they couldn't begin to swallow them. Now I don't see a one go for the feed. If there aren't a lot less of them then they are sure a lot more cautious.

From the pictures all I can say is "patience Grasshopper".

Small heads in relationship to the bodies mean they are growing fast.

That's a good point to raise. Without supplemental pellet feeding, fish will go 100% pisciverous diet. Some shut down feeders periodically if small BG population need additional management assistance. I do not think the HSB will be the primary BG management tool, however, the LMB will. So, I encourage a pellet program to benefit both the BG and HSB. The HSB will be hunting all day when the feeder isn't active - they will help with the management in my experience despite the feeder.

No problem IMO I would NOT stock 25 to 50 more LMB in your pond. I think that's overkill but that's just me. Remember do things in small amounts! I have learned that a little change can DO a LOT to your pond! Your BG in the pick is to big for your bass to eat. If you have tons of BG that size measure one. Then figure it out. Most bass can eat a fish 1/3rd their size. So if your wanting to reduce the amonut of 4 inch BG you have you should get just a few 13 inch bass and put them in there. They would help control that size range and then your smaller bass will help control your 1 to 3 inch BG. Keep in mind also anothoer reason why I would not add so many bass is your going to have a spawn soon. I had one last year in my 1 acre pond I got a dozen or more 8 inch bass running around now. And in a 2 acre pond where there is more room to hide you could end up with a lot of baby bass next year. Most will get ate but some will make it and then you have to start dealing with that. One of the most important things you can do to make sure your somewhat on the right tract is take RW's of your LMB. If they are near or above 100 percent RW then your doing fine. If their at 80 percent RW then not enough food or not enough correct sized food for them to eat. If their at 120 percent then a LOT of food for them. I like to try to keep mine balanced. I would like a few nice LMB to pull in once in a while by nice I mean 2 to 4 pounds. If your all about the BG then you can have a lot more bass, just don't expect them to get over 14 inches. Like the guys said above it all depends on what you want out of your pond.

RC

Oldgeekinnc, from the looks of that bass in your pic, he is very fat for being so short.

Bear in mind the stated goal is a trophy BG fishery - in which case LMB will be overpopulated and likely low WR. If the goal remains trophy BG, as stated above, stocking additional LMB is recommended. You stocked under 50/acre [95 for 2 acre BOW] - you should consider bumping that to 75-100/acre [additional 25-50 LMB/ac] IF and only IF your goal remains to create a trophy BG fishery. Your original LMB stocking rates are more in line with the goal of creating a trophy LMB fishery.

Just repeating. Decide which goal presented by TJ above that you want. Your initial stocking method or design was to produce larger bass which was also noted by TJ; even thought that was not your actual goal. To get more toward trophy BG you will need more bass. To do that, determine which size of BG is most abundant (2"-3", 3"-4", or 4"-5") then stock bass 3-4X longer than those BG. Also you can target the abundant size class of BG by simple live bait angling and removing those BG from the abundant size category. Trapping also works. You should be able to catch 20-35 BG per hr of angling when they are abundant, young & dumb.

Hey TJ thankns for being so easy on me!! I did miss that in his post that his goal was Large Bream! My fault! Sorry Geek with that goal in mind TJ is right on track with adding more bass. The more 12 to 14 inch bass you got taking care of the smaller bream the ones that make it are gonna be BIG! Although you may have to fight off a few bass before you catch the Bream!

RC

Thanks everyone for all the great advise. What I have mostly taken away from this is that patience is the key. I have to remember that there's nothing in the pond more that 2 years old. You also helped remind me what my goals for the pond were. All I really wanted was to be able to harvest 1 or 2 hundred pounds of fish a year and not have to feed to do it. Given the growth that I have seen in the last year (both size and population) this goal certainly seems achievable. Yes it would be great if most of what I take out are 12 oz. bream but anything I do now short of stuffing them with pellets won't make that happen any faster.

So I guess for now the answer is wait until next spring and start the discussion again. I might however add a few more HSB sometime this year. I have never been an avid angler. I was more about eating them than catching them. But the other day out in the boat I threw out a little 1-1/2" plug just to see what happened. What I can only imagine was one of those larger wipers grabbed it. I wasn't able to land it but that was one hell of a ride for 10 or 12 seconds.

I also understand that HSB are right tasty!

Bill,
I don't think I can hook that many mealworms in an hour.