Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Shotgun01, Dan H, Stipker, LunkerHunt23, Jeanjules
18,451 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics40,899
Posts557,051
Members18,451
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 28,407
ewest 21,474
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 15,110
Who's Online Now
2 members (Rainman, Bobbss), 458 guests, and 152 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,791
Likes: 14
O
Omaha Offline OP
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
OP Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
O
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,791
Likes: 14
Need some advice from the Pond Boss family.

As many of you know, I finished construction of my pond last spring. It immediately began filling with generous rainfall and multiple springs. Then July came and my small watershed was exposed. It's desperation time. The pond is holding water, but the level has dropped to probably 4 feet max. There's no way around it. I need a well.

I was not planning on having electricity at the pond, but now I need it. Nearest electricity is approximately 700 feet from the pond's edge. We will run it from there. We do have to cross a creek and have the posts to do this. The rest of the wire will be buried. I'm looking at probably needing ~25gpm from the well and will eventually use it to run an aeration system.

Based on this information, knowing full well I may need to elaborate on a few things, what size of Romex cable will I need to run this distance? What other things should I consider to get this done as soon as possible? I'd like to keep costs at a minimum, but realize running electricity and a well aren't necessarily cheap.

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692
J
JKB Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker
J
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692
Depends on how many amps are required and the service voltage.

What is your service and how loaded is it right now?

A 25gpm well could be any combination of pump/motor from a small motor to a much larger rig.

Have your well defined with all the particulars. Start Here.


Last edited by JKB; 09/16/13 06:07 AM.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 697
B
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
B
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 697
How much did it go down? Is it all from evaporation or is it seeping. Thought I remember that you dug through a sand layer. Is that the level the water is at now?


"I think I have a nibble" Homer Simpson

34ac natural lake



Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,791
Likes: 14
O
Omaha Offline OP
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
OP Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
O
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,791
Likes: 14
Went down probably three or so feet once the July drought took hold. No sand. Very solid clay so seepage or leaking doesn't seem to be an issue. We just had a very bad couple months rain-wise.

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 697
B
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
B
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 697

A well seems drastic. One day it will rain!

I see there is a creek within 700 feet. Can you pump from it and just run the power to that

Last edited by blair5002; 09/15/13 09:57 PM.

"I think I have a nibble" Homer Simpson

34ac natural lake



Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,407
Likes: 788
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,407
Likes: 788
Just due to evaporation, my stock tank ponds near the house are down 8". That's even after getting rained in a few times. Weather service said we broke the 80 year old 7-1 thru 9-1 record for lowest amount of rain in that 2 month period.

Josh, my pond (in sand) with a 25 gpm well was still dropping 1/4"-1/2" per day. When I shut the well off, it increased to 1" per day. I shut it off a week or so ago. Since July 1, my pond has dropped 35".

Josh, check the well pumps and motor draws. All pumps are NOT alike. You can pump the same GPM at the same head, but pump "A" might be a 3/4 hp motor and pump "B" might be a 1.5 hp motor......


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,791
Likes: 14
O
Omaha Offline OP
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
OP Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
O
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,791
Likes: 14
There is a creek very close, but not enough elevation to run a ram pump and I don't want to risk invasives with trash pumping from it.

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692
J
JKB Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker
J
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692
What are typical wells in your area?

That will give you an idea on what to look for in a pump.

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,791
Likes: 14
O
Omaha Offline OP
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
OP Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
O
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,791
Likes: 14
I'm not sure how to answer your question JKB.

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,407
Likes: 788
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,407
Likes: 788
I think what he means is what are the casing size, depth and GPM produced from typical wells in your area near the pond.

For instance here, a typical house well has a 4" casing, and will produce anywhere from 10-30 gpm from a well that is between 90-110 feet deep. Agricultural wells (center pivot) can be up to a 16" casing, and can supply over 2,000 gpm. Well depth is still in the 90'-110' range.

As for electricity, I'm assuming you have 220v-240v single phase available. You need to measure the actual voltage to determine where you stand. For instance, here I have 243 volts.

If you have 3-phase, consider yourself lucky. You can save a bunch on electric costs!


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692
J
JKB Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker
J
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692
Typical well depth, static water level, draw down and rate.

As an example for wire.
If you have a 240 volt service and were to run 60amps to your pond with less than 3% voltage drop. The size of direct bury copper cable required would be 4/0 3 conductor with a ground.

I just got a price for 750 feet of copper cable, sit down now..... $12,562.50 eek Go with aluminum. It will be much cheaper, but the cable will be much larger. 350MCM.

Also, if your service is a lower voltage, then your wire size will increase.

Like esshup stated, you need to measure your actual service voltage to know where you really stand.

Esshup can white knuckle you thru this measurement wink

Last edited by JKB; 09/16/13 08:33 AM.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,407
Likes: 788
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,407
Likes: 788
JKB, that's why I have that aluminum wire in the stable. When I priced copper, it was about triple the cost of aluminum.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692
J
JKB Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker
J
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692
Our estimator just told me that we don't quote copper anymore unless it is absolutely required.

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,791
Likes: 14
O
Omaha Offline OP
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
OP Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
O
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,791
Likes: 14
I'll try to answer these questions, but this is completely unfamiliar territory for me. In talking with TJ, he had his well guy go over 100 feet and go with a larger pump (50gpm I think). I don't need that. My water is much higher being next to a creek and wouldn't need that much gpms. Without knowing a lick about this stuff, I was considering the possibility of running 12 gauge Romex.

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,792
Likes: 68
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,792
Likes: 68
My well hit water at 170' - went another 100' down so I wouldn't have issues during drought. Need 5 hp pump to hit my 50 GPM. Josh would likely hit water around 50-80' is my WAG, and needs less GPM probably 20-25 GPM. Based on that rough information, I was thinking he'd need 1 - 3 HP pump.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,791
Likes: 14
O
Omaha Offline OP
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
OP Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
O
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,791
Likes: 14
Thanks TJ.

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 352
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 352
Perhaps, you could place the well and aeration pump closer to you power source and pipe the water and air to the pond. Small diameter pvc pipe is considerably cheaper than large diameter electrical wire.

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,284
Likes: 288
Moderator
Offline
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,284
Likes: 288
Josh, I hate this for you, hope there's a reasonable way to get this handled.


AL

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692
J
JKB Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker
J
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692
Omaha, just to give you an idea, this is what a 4/0 wire looks like: (its Aluminum)



A wee bit bigger than 12 AWG, and there would be 3, plus a smaller ground wire. Didn't have any 350MCM Aluminum laying around, but it's larger.

This would be for 60 amps at 240v running 750 feet (copper). You won't need that tho. It was just an example. If it were me and I was going thru the expense, I would at least run 60 for having greater future options.

At least consider 30 amps to the pond. That would be 3/0 Aluminum for full load, but you can usually tweak that down based on what you might be running at the same time to 2/0. Also don't know how picky your inspectors are.

Based on the info TJ posted and looking at some Grundfos pump curves. Probably could get handily by with a 3/4 hp pump. I would probably bump it up to a 1.5hp 3 phase 5 stage pump, and toss a VFD on it. Tweak it back to 25gpm and it will eat substantially less watts than the 3/4hp single phase pump. Plus, you have the option of cranking it up!

Yeah, it can get complicated!

Figure a couple grand for aluminum direct bury cable on the minimum side of things to make the motor spin.

Last edited by JKB; 09/17/13 05:10 AM.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,792
Likes: 68
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,792
Likes: 68
Originally Posted By: gully washer
Perhaps, you could place the well and aeration pump closer to you power source and pipe the water and air to the pond. Small diameter pvc pipe is considerably cheaper than large diameter electrical wire.


Gully, we're on the same page here. I suggested popping well near the power source [farm] and running 700' PVC to the pond. 250' 1.5" PVC is $150-ish - plenty large enough for 25 GPM - might even get away with 1.25" which is obviously cheaper. Rent a ditch witch for $75/day. For aeration drop the 1" PVC at same time as the well run and leave both ends accessible.

Only drawback is there's still no power at the pond for light. Suppose you could go solar and batteries for light - but how often are you really going to be hanging out at the pond after dark?

PVC plan seems it would be more economical but not sure that's critical for Josh.

If it matters, the plan I described is the one I followed for my ponds and it saved me a significant $.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692
J
JKB Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker
J
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692
Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
Originally Posted By: gully washer
Perhaps, you could place the well and aeration pump closer to you power source and pipe the water and air to the pond. Small diameter pvc pipe is considerably cheaper than large diameter electrical wire.


Gully, we're on the same page here. I suggested popping well near the power source [farm] and running 700' PVC to the pond. 250' 1.5" PVC is $150-ish - plenty large enough for 25 GPM - might even get away with 1.25" which is obviously cheaper. Rent a ditch witch for $75/day. For aeration drop the 1" PVC at same time as the well run and leave both ends accessible.

Only drawback is there's still no power at the pond for light. Suppose you could go solar and batteries for light - but how often are you really going to be hanging out at the pond after dark?

PVC plan seems it would be more economical but not sure that's critical for Josh.

If it matters, the plan I described is the one I followed for my ponds and it saved me a significant $.


When asking my boss a question about this. He mentioned, why would you want to run 700' of electrical? Only reason I mentioned was to have power at the pond.

My 2 pennies.

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 352
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 352
Omaha, maybe your electrical provider would install another service drop on your property, next to the pond. In my area they provide the first 800' without charge to a proposed house site. Even if they charged you, it may not cost as much as doing it yourself. Seems like I saw a discussion about this in another thread, a few months ago.

JKB, I have just about enough knowledge of electricity to be considered dangerous. So, I have a question. On a long run, such as the 700' in question, would it be OK to install a ground rod for the breaker box, at the end of the run, instead of running a 700' ground wire? If so, is there a downside to doing so? I may eventually run power to my tractor shed, and was just wondering.

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,025
Likes: 274
D
Moderator
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Lunker
D
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,025
Likes: 274
For that distance, I would have your electricity provider put up another pole with transformer. They did that when I put in a well about 75 yards from the house. It has it's own transformer and meter. Of course, the meter fee is $20 per month.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692
J
JKB Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker
J
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692
Originally Posted By: gully washer
JKB, I have just about enough knowledge of electricity to be considered dangerous. So, I have a question. On a long run, such as the 700' in question, would it be OK to install a ground rod for the breaker box, at the end of the run, instead of running a 700' ground wire? If so, is there a downside to doing so? I may eventually run power to my tractor shed, and was just wondering.


You can, no downside, but you will have to treat it like a new service entering your shed with a main breaker type panel and all that stuff. I would want a main breaker anyway. May cost more for installation tho.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other, but check with your local code first. Michigan is really strict, and wouldn't be a problem here.

Not saying that it wouldn't be where you are at, but check first! Some States are nut's when it comes to NEC Code, and MI isn't one of them super nutty ones.



Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,791
Likes: 14
O
Omaha Offline OP
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
OP Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
O
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,791
Likes: 14
My reason for wanting electricity at the pond was long term thinking. While it will be used immediately to run a pump and fill the pond, it can be used for multiple things right at the pond down the road. But if the cost is that much different, I can certainly consider running pipe instead of electricity.

I had not thought of inquiring with the electric company. I will do that today.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
Bob Lusk, GaryK, GrizzFan, PhotographerDave
Recent Posts
Happy Birthday Bob Lusk!!
by Rainman - 03/28/24 02:53 AM
Relative weight charts in Excel ? Calculations?
by Mark Dyer - 03/27/24 10:18 PM
Reducing fish biomass
by esshup - 03/27/24 06:17 PM
New 2 acre pond stocking plan
by esshup - 03/27/24 06:05 PM
1 year after stocking question
by esshup - 03/27/24 06:02 PM
Questions and Feedback on SMB
by Donatello - 03/27/24 03:10 PM
Paper-shell crayfish and Japanese snails
by Bill Cody - 03/27/24 10:18 AM
Brooder Shiners and Fry, What to do??
by esshup - 03/27/24 08:47 AM
2024 North Texas Optimal BG food Group Buy
by Dave Davidson1 - 03/27/24 08:15 AM
Dewatering bags seeded to form berms?
by esshup - 03/26/24 10:00 PM
Freeze Danger? - Electric Diaphragm Pump
by esshup - 03/26/24 09:47 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
by Theo Gallus, July 28
Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5