Pond Boss Forums INTRO New Forum Member Introduction N.S.P - Natural Swimming Pond/Pool

I recently came across "N.S.P.'s in my never ending search for info on ponds.
It's a somewhat new trend in creating and/or maintaining swimming ponds/pools without the use of chemicals and relying completely on Mother Nature to keep things clean. A Google search on the subject produces pictures of some gorgeous ponds/pools.
Apparently, N.S.P.'s are much more popular in Germany and are slowly making their way into the U.S.

While there is no shortage on pictures of finished projects, I have been unable to find anything detailing the construction of these natural filtering systems.
I believe that I can figure out the mechanical structure of the filter but am I am at a loss when it comes to what and how to populate the filter area.
A few questions to my local County Extension office - as well as local nurseries - will get me a list of native plants, but what type, how many, what placement, what ratio, etc is the needed info I have been unable to find.

Does anyone out there have any first hand knowledge on N.S.P.s?

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

I have no idea.. But I thought there was a little discussion on this last year sometime.. Couldn't tell you the thread name but you might be able to get lucky in a search..

I have been in pond construction for over 15 years and have been researching NSPs for the last 8. What I have gleaned from this research which included conversations with the CDC and with the North American representative for the largest NSP contractor in Europe is that there is NO way to guarantee that the water will be as safe as a conventional swimming pool. Plants can and will remove chemical pathogens from the water column but have no prophylactic effect on organic pathogens such as E coli, fecal coliform bacteria or other pathogenic organisms. If one is to eliminate the commonly used sterilizer, Chlorine, then it must be replaced with something else of similar effectiveness such as a commercial grade UV sterilizer or Ozone generator. Periodic testing is also required in order to ascertain that the proper level of disinfection is being applied.

And then there are mosquitos

And snakes and frogs and all kinds of animals.. I say if you want a pool invest in some concrete and build you an inground pool.. If you want a pond too swim in pour some sand for a beach and build a dock to jump off of.. Both in one just don't seem feasible..

I'm just starting to design a NSP. We will be converting a leaking existing concrete pool by adding a liner and doubling the surface area. I'll be using a company out of KS as a consultaunt for most the details but will be doing most the construction ourselves. A good friend is a Landscape Architect and she will help with native plants for this area.

I planned on starting a thread in 4 - 6 weeks once I learn more and have some drawings done. Our goal is to have it done by May 2014.

The thing is, I already have a pond on my property. The original owner had it dug out and filled.
As far as I can tell, other than dumping in some blue dye, there was never any real maintenance done.

I already have the frogs, toads, snakes, mosquitoes...

I've added an aeration system, which helped, but I'd like to "take it to the next level". Am I expecting "swimming pool" clean? No, not at all. I'd like to get, and keep, it as clean - and natural - as possible. The NSP idea looks like a good idea.

If I'm going to landscape around the pond anyway, why not make the whole thing work together as beneficially as possible?

There was a nsp on a Show on one of the home improvement channels, " amazing pools" or something like that. Besides the pumps and filters, there was a surrounding"shelf" of plants/bio filtration. Seems like the technology from large aquariums like Tampa and Atlanta were being used on a smaller scale for a nsp.

That may be a good way to think about it, an aquarium big enough for humans to swim in

Richie,
From what I have learned, a NSP is not a pond. About the only thing in common is the water and plants. Gallop said it the best, it’s “an aquarium big enough for humans to swim in”. (But not for fish)

To make it work the PH has to be low, 5.5 to 6.5 maximum. For a pond with healthy fish the minimum PH is 6.5 IIRC. Plus fish of any size will add too much nutrients (poop) which would require a larger filtration area. I may add minnows if mosquitoes become a problem but will have to limit their numbers. The literature says mosquitoes are not a problem because the water is always moving.

The filtration area (6” to 30” deep) needs to be minimum equal to or 1.5x the area of the pool (36” or deeper). You also have to have water constantly circulating through the gravel in the filtration area. I don’t remember off hand the water changes but it’s more than you want to do for any decent size pond. My design has the existing pool of 600sf and a new filtration area of 1,100sf. .04 acres total.

When I first got my pond last year I too thought it would be great to turn it into a NSP until I started reading Pond Boss Forum and about NSPs. I calculated the high 5 figures if I was lucky to turn my 2 acre pond into a 3/4 acre NPS. They are different creatures.

Lastly, it will be a natural "water garden" not a natural "swimming pool". There are too many building codes for swimming pools. I can’t help it if, due to an excess of beer, I fall out of the hot tub into the water garden every once in awhile.

Mudhole,
Awesome points, thank you.

PH? I'm not concerned with what it is. If the PH is conducive for healthy fish, I'll have a healthy fish pond that I might swim in once in a while. A crystal clear pool/pond is not what I'm after.

The pond I have is somewhat kidney shaped and measures about 80' X 12' and sits on about two acres.

What I'm really after is a nice, natural, way to get/keep the pond clean and healthy enough to not be an eyesore and receptive to an occasional swim.

As best I can tell, someone came over with some digging equipment, made a hole, filled it with water and said, "Voila! A pond!". I've owned it for about 5 years and do my best to keep surrounding run-off to a minimum, keep as much twigs, leaves and other detritus out of it, and installed an aerator a little over one year ago. It's all helped but what I currently have is a somewhat "cleaner" "mudhole".

One point you mentioned, and that I thought of but had no info on, was how much water needs to be pumped through the filter. This point alone may be a requirement that I am not willing to meet.

If you (or anyone else) has any better ideas for me, please do share.

Thanks again!

Sometimes you just get lucky like I did and wind up with a limestone based clay and low nutrient level pond. Not the optimal level for fish, but great swimming. What my problem is a leaky pond that looses level so I wind up with the mud rim. Oh well, beggars can't be choosers.

these links might be of help
http://www.creativepumps.com.au/zpumps/swimming_ponds/swim_pond_ideas/swimming_pond_ideas.htm
http://www.totalhabitat.com/p&p.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNCPA5PQpGA&list=TLi5HBWUPzblQ

hey all,

If I may, I think that NSP are a much better alternative. I built this, and love it. Nothing compares to swim in a nature cleaned water...this is a very good alternative to chemically treated pools. But then again, it is up to every single individual. Water in my pond is clean as it can be...and I never put one drop of anything in it since I built it.

Nice pool Dimon, and welcome to PondBoss.

With that photo, you are waving a steak in front of a hungry dog!!!
We want photos!!!!! Lots of photos!!!!!!
How about a description of your build process. I am sure it would help a lot of folks out in the future. Any info is appreciated.
You do it all yourself or hired it out?

I agree with you 100 % . What am i gonna do with a pond which doesn't even have fish in it?

And why to be worried about fish poop and filtration? Will fish poop kill you? Besides, fish poop has nothing to do with the clarity of the water(it is a natural fertilizer but fish poop is never a big factor in algae).


And you actually need some fish because of 1 important reason: They will eat dead insects and bugs. I personally hate it when huge dead coachroaches or sometimes scorpions floating dead in the water while i am trying to swim.

They also eat live bugs too!

Yeah, like mosquitos and their larvae.

Dave, they claim that they eliminate the mosquitos with aeration and that must be right about that but what about big , ugly bugs that fall in the water? After a while you will have dead bugs everywhere unless you place your pond away from trees and soil which is not even an option for the most pond owners.

Fatih, I've never heard that aeration has an effect on mosquito larvae or other bugs.

The cycle of pond life includes insects. Here's the way it works.

The lowest level is phytoplankton which is microscopic plants. It is fed on by zooplankton which is microscopic animal life(bugs). That is fed on by other larger microscopic animals(more bugs). Somewhere in that food chain would be a mosquito larvae. That continues up the food chain until those bugs are eaten by tiny fish that are eaten by larger fish. Everything in a pond is eaten by something bigger. Actually 98 to 99% of all small fish are eaten before they get large enough for us to utilize. But that's OK and it keeps the pond from becoming overcrowded.

Unless there is something about the large bugs that makes them unpalatable, fish should soon eliminate them when they hit the water.

It is not the aeration that keeps the mosquitoes away, it is the water movement caused by the aerator. Mosquitoes will only lay eggs in stagnate water. In most cases just an aerator will not move enough water. It is suggested a NSP have four water changes per day so water pumps are needed. Also the frogs, salamanders, dragonflies, birds and other wildlife that will be attracted to the NSP help control the mosquitoes (and other bugs that fall into the water).

As for fish, it depends on who you talk to. One company says it’s OK as long as it’s not too many. Another says “No, fish add an undesirable amount of nutrients to the system which will deteriorate water quality and cause algae blooms. Fish also consume beneficial microorganisms that the system needs to stay clean and clear.” I myself will have minnows which will be trapped and put in the big pond if they start to over populate. I’m also toying with the idea of putting in tilapia to overwinter then move them to the big pond each spring. If fish become an issue, I'll just remove them.

We had planned to have started on our NSP a few months ago but decided to install the hot tub first, (installed last week). May not have been a good choice because we now sit in the tub and look at the stuff we should be working on. I’ll start posting pictures of our progress once we make some. Unlike Dimon’s (very nice), we’re converting an existing pool which has its own challenges. We are hoping to finish the NSP by June, 2014. (Too many projects not enough time.)

That's interesting. Can you tell us more about that please?

Not my quote. I pulled it from the comment section of a forum I no longer have the link to. It was from Alan Weene of BioNova® Natural Pools. He was answering questions of other people commenting about a NSP article (not his).

Hello all,

Thanks for the warm words.

Few notes, I see people discussing the problems, and I would like to let you know few things and share my experience.

First mosquitos...don't worry about them...really, you will not have this problem if you build it right and install sufficient pump.

Then fish...ok, here is an interesting part, I have also a small pond with about 5 koi and dozen gold fish in there...so when I finish my NSP I decided to put in 3 fish just to have some life in there...well next thing I know, now just a couple of month later I have about 20 decent size and more smaller...NEVER feed them or anything...so I will wait till spring and see...if it will balance out, I will keep them...they never bother me when swim in it.

Now how I build it...well I hire earth movers and told them how exactly do what...then general contractor came in and did plumbing and stuff by my design...then waterfall...came out ok, but I will redo it...will share more pictures...in fact I plan to start a business..here in TN I don't know how many people will want it or what...but I can tell you one thing...you swim in it one time and then you will never want to swim in any chlorinated, salt or whatever other chemical treated water...EVER:)...and I am just telling that because that's how I feel now

Quick thing on BioNova and for that matter BioTop as well

Great companies, and great systems...BUT very expensive in my opinion, and also it is a good fit for colder climates and not so suitable for bit warmer weather.

After research I decided to build system that has much more advantages...in fact my pond has about 130 tons more advantages than BioNova or BioTop ponds...and as for fish...have it in...it is entertaining to swim when they are in there...they will not hurt anything, and water will stay clear as it can be