Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Watching someone fish...

This year, I've started letting some folks in to fish our ponds. I had a couple of fellows in tonight for their first time, took them around and showed them the ponds they were allowed to fish in, went over the ground rules like I always do, and turned them loose. After a couple hours I went down to see how they were getting along, and was a little surprised at what I witnessed.

They were BG fishing in pond #5, and had five or six good fish. they watched me feed in pond #4, (the CC and HSB pond) and decided to try their luck there, which is OK....I had already asked them to release any HSB they caught, but was fine with them taking a few cats home for dinner.

Since I was already there feeding, I didn't feel too bad about watching them for a few minutes. One of them hauled in a monster, gravid BG...an unintended side effect of feeding the CC and HSB....., then I saw his line twitch. (He was fishing with a nightcrawler, on the bottom, no float) Apparently, he didn't notice the hit, as he didn't react. When he went to pull in his line, he had a HSB on the other end, with the hook swallowed. His reel kept skipping and jerking, which added to the time it took to land the fish. It was about 16" long, and mortally hooked.

So, after telling myself that it happens, I told him to keep the fish and let me know what he thought of the taste. Then, I watched him take two CC out in the same fashion.....missed takes, resulting in swallowed hooks. I saw the takes, but he didn't, and I hated to say anything. Two more fish mortally wounded.

While he's fishing, he's telling me about HIS POND, and asking me why his fish have gotten smaller, even though he's careful to return EVERYTHING back to the water, and he doesn't allow anyone else to fish there.......

I don't want to be hard-nosed, but do I need to inspect the gear of everyone who I let in to fish, to make sure it's up to snuff, AND make them demonstrate their angling abilities beforehand?

I can't be angry, as I'm the one who gives folks permission to fish. I just assumed that people who wanted to fish, KNEW how to fish. That's my fault.

Any advice?

Too bad about the HSB, but given how hook shy CC get, a swallowed hook, IMO and mort is a good thing with or without angling skills,

I hope you educated him to the hazards of total C&R in his pond.

If it's your place, your pond, your fish, I think it's your rules, whatever these might be.

This is always going to happen when you let other people fish your pond(s).

I'm shocked that this guy has his own pond 'cause you would assume he knew better.

Even I gullet hook fish from time to time, and I am very adept at using this tool:

I absolutely agree. I don't think the average person realizes how much effort goes in to the ponds we have. It's a labor of love, and we enjoy sharing, but...

The few instances I've had were guests assuming a single invitation meant they could come back and bring family/friends. I never heard from them again once they couldn't fish under their terms, and that was fine by me.

To me it's like sharing a hunt. You pick up your shells, cans, trash, and respect the property rules. A pond is no different.

AMEN!

Tell me about it...."oh can I just bring my brother?"
then the brother shows up with his buddy with 4 kids....
"hey can we ride the ATV's?"..."is there anyway I can have
the gate code?".

Thanks for the input. I guess the big question I'm wrestling with revolves around ability, not so much disrespect. Everyone I've let fish so far has been very appreciative, and respectful of my wishes. But what about possible adverse effects caused, not purposefully, but accidentally?

Those fish I lost last night were due to simple lack of ability on the angler's part. Sure, the CC are no big deal, but as we all know, those HSB are another matter. And if it were a kid, or someone trying to learn to fish, it would be different in my eyes.....but an adult? One who has fished for years, AND owns his own pond?

Everyone will deep hook a fish once in awhile, but I watched it happen three times in a row, AND I saw the subtle take that signaled a fish had the bait each time.....he didn't know a fish was in the area until it started tugging on his line.....By then it was too late.

After the third fish, all I could think about were more HSB picking up his bait, and suffering the same fate. I want to be nice, and share what we have, but I also don't need it to be a stressful event each time someone comes in to fish.

Losing a fish every so often comes with the territory. But how would you handle an angler who causes more than his share of damage, even unknowingly and unintentionally?

I think we are answering your questions.

You will see that time and time again where people screw up your fish due to their own specific actions whether due to lack of skill or knowledge, or simple lack of appreciation of another's efforts to create a pond, thus not having the appreciation to pay attention to one's line so as not to gut hook a fish.

Most have evolved to the simple answer of being super selective of who we allow to fish our ponds, specifically knowing that those select few know what they are doing.

I hear ya loud and clear. I let my one neighbor fish, with the rule that he has to remove any LMB caught without a tag. I think I'm going to have to add to that rule saying barbless hooks after seeing a LMB swimming around with a one of those plastic worms with 3 hooks on it in it's mouth. Seems the line broke as he was trying to land the fish. FWIW, two days and the worm had worked itself out and was gone. I could id the individual fish, it was feed trained and had a distinctive mark on it.

Let him know how valuable those HSB are and where you're coming from.
He may just be understanding and be willing to pay the "replacement" cost?

Just a thought... its not really sharing if you make it a pay lake I guess, but it does make it sustainable at least?

I hear you, and I understand. And, I agree that this is probably the only solution, as much as I don't want it to be.

How do you tell someone that their angling abilities are not up to your standards?? Or do you.....should I come up with another reason for restricting his access?

Here is a story for you.
Had a neighbor call me many years back and apologized about asking me to let some people go fishing. He had called me and asked if 2 elderly ladies (1 70's & 1 80's) from his church could go fishing in my HBG pond. He was apologizing because when he went to check on them (after they had been there a while) they had 116 HBG. When he seen the pile of fish he was smart enough to tell the women he had to count them and weight them for records for me. Upon hearing that he said the ladies stopped fishing. He said they had around 200# of fish. He said he would never ask to let anyone go fishing again. Well the following Saturday I had to call him to handle the situation he created. I had received a call (out of town) that the ladies had came back bringing more people and already had a bunch of fish. He handles that and I think this is the end of it. The following Sunday I want to put eyes on these ladies so I call my neighbor and tell him I will be coming to his church for morning service. I arrive and he greats me and we go inside. When we enter the door his pastor quickly shakes my hand and says I know you. You live next to that really good fishing pond that Sister XXXX & XXXXX took me and couple of the deacons to Friday before last that belongs to Brother XXXXX here. Brother James immediately turned fire red and told the Pastor I do not own a pond. I called and got permission from him for the Ladies to go fishing in his pond 1 time and had to apologize to him for them taking to many fish. The Pastor in a panic tried to change the subject and Said "well brother what brings you to our church today". I replied" I just came to put a faces to the people that had been trespassing and stealing my fish". Next thing I heard was "Sorry, I have got to go and get ready for service to begin". I just looked at my neighbor and said " Brother, I think I am going to skip church today before I say something I may regret later". The good part was later that day the Pastor and some deacons came by to apologize with a nice size check in hand for fish provided to their church.

Do you feel it would be a waste of time to just be honest, but be gentle and explain that...."ya know I spend a lot of money, blood, sweat and tears on these ponds and fish...and I just hate to see them deep gut hooked...could ya really try to make sure that doesnt happen as best as you can by watching and being attentive to bites"?

I definitely understand this thread...fishing and hunting are personal things for me and I take them 'seriously' - in that I respect both the pastime and the animal I am harvesting. As someone who owns both hunting ground and fishing ponds I struggle with this all the time. I hold myself and people that hunt/fish with me and/or on my property to a particular standard. If I don't think you are 'up to snuff' then you don't go. Kids excluded, at least initially. I'll work with kids on hookset, tackle condition, catch and release policies, etc. If it doesn't sink in due to lack of attention and/or concern then they will eventually find themselves uninvited just like an adult.

Now with that said I've found that there are many people that are perfectly willing to abide by rules set as long as the landowner informs them. Not everyone, but many.

I enjoy being able to provide my friends and family with recreation opportunities - as long as they are appreciative, don't take advantage and follow the rules.

If he asks to fish again, which he implied that he would like to do, I will just have to talk with him and see what I can get accomplished. Back when this place was a campground, I saw all manner of inconsistencies, bad habits, sub-par gear, and poor fishing practices. It's been so long since I had to deal with that however, I guess I had just forgotten that this type of thing was prone to happen.

I need to give it some thought, and come up with some rules or ideas to help prevent future such occurrences.

I've found that reaction lures are surprisingly good for novice fishermen to use. No one misses strikes on in-line spinners, crankbaits, or topwater lures. My four-year-old niece can catch bass with a Roostertail and a Disney Princess Pole and mouth hook them every time.

Knowing what I know now compared to a little over a year ago, a true "pondmeister" could have spent hours trying to explain the passion, investment, and blood, sweat and tears that goes into owning and/or managing your own pond, and I would be in awe of that knowledge and passion. But I know I would not have the same feelings and/or passion (if not obsession) that I have now. I think it's just too hard for most folks to grasp.

We've all had strong beliefs and/or a passion for things over the years where it just seems like other people "just don't understand", or "just don't get it". Owning/managing a pond is no different.

Some will be understanding with a desire to learn. Some, out of no fault of their own, just don't know any better. And the others (the know-it-alls) will just blow off or ignore what you're trying to explain and continue with their "it's just a pond" attitude.

Those with whom I feel will at least try to understand, and are willing to listen and learn, are welcome to fish at my offering. I know and accept that mistakes will be made but as long as they're willing to listen and learn, I'm okay with that.

For me, and I'm sure it's the same for many of you, a lot of the pleasure we receive is in sharing, and seeing the joy in the eyes of others. And I would say especially kids, but the giggles that come out of my 74 year old father are absoultely priceless!

Just my FWIW

PB Rocks! - Keith

PS - People seem to be more respectful when they know how passionate I am about my pond and the fish that are in it (those are my kids!), opposed to the money, time or effort I've put into it. Well, I call it passionate, some call it "anal"

I've experienced similar problems, and have really restricted who can fish the ponds. I was at a good friend's place earlier in the week. It is a place where we've done a lot to cleanup three old ponds. One of the ponds still has a lot of green sunfish that we are slowly getting under control.

They invited a neighbor over who says he loves to can those things and would take out as many as he could catch. He unfortunately also took out a number of 12-14 inch catfish we put in last year, and some of the big bass that have been getting the green sunfish under control. His excuse was that he doesn't believe it is healthy for a pond to throw back anything that gets caught.

I don't think he'll be invited back.

I can relate with everyone's experiences and frustrations. I also am very particular about who I let fish. Close family members, most of whom live far away. That way I know my aggravation will be short lived. And only VERY close friends.

I'll give my 2 cents worth, maybe it will help solve some of your problems. I would add some rules. I would make it mandatory that if not fishing with lures, to you MUST use a bobber. They can compensate somewhat for depth, if they decide they want to fish deeper. I would also make it the smallest bobber possible for the rig they're using. That way the smallest of strikes are detected.Also long shanked hooks only, with the barbs removed. I would also go as far as making the rule that they can bring their own lures, and upon inspection can be used, but I would provide the fishing hooks, all theirs not being aloud. Kindly explain your reasons for the types of bobbers and hooks used.

The thing is many people dont know any better.Once upon a time, I used to not understand the different options, and the reasons behind them. And there's others that dont care or all ready know everything. Anyone defying or arguing with the rules......you're outta here and dont come back.

For what it's worth, I occasionally have people that I know, ask ifn they can fish. I know the one's that will turn it into a free for all. I turn the tables. I ask to use their pool or bbq pit. That I'm going to have some friends over to their backyard. It's always a no-go.I tell them how much money I've thrown in that hole, and they get a funny look in their eyes.

The ones that dont have a pool or BBQ pit, I ask to borrow their car........

Anyway, it can be a difficult situation to be in. Do not be afraid to change the rules as you go along, and as needed. Always remember you're trying to be kind. Your kindness should be reciprocated.It's your ballgame, and you do make the rules as you go along.

Sorry about the rant!

One thing to add. If they are fishing in the pond, make sure that they have a good net and don't let the fish flop around all over the ground. If you have large LMB in the pond, holding the fish by it's lower jaw like you see on fishing shows may very well injure the fish, and not be noticable immediately.

A friend who is very particular about his "babies", has just a few rules on his pond, and he lets a number of people fish it.

1) Fly Fishing only
2) Barbless hooks, artificial bait only
3) Fish is to be out of the water for 30 seconds max.
4) LMB MUST be netted out of the water, and MUST be held with two hands. Hook is to be removed while the LMB is in the net in the water. Not held with one hand and removed with the other.

IIRC the pond record is now at 11+# for a LMB. I've caught RES on a LMB popper that were somewhere between 11"-12".

One last thing - NO line or plastic lures are to be left at or in the pond - don't take a used up soft plastic bait off the hook and discard it in the pond - it can kill a fish by plugging up their digestive tract.

Do those rules apply to Green Sunfish as well

For about the last year I've been doing a somewhat unscientific experiment. Our pond guests are mostly close friends, relatives, and the grand kids and their friends. Most are pretty skilled in catching, unhooking, and releasing fish.

I have three cages at the end of my dock.

One is for growing special fish, mostly big LMB that need to be culled from the pond -- but, aren't ready for a dinner of big fish fillets until their Wr increases.

Another is a holding pen, mostly for bluegill, and also for any crappie that are pulled in. Sometimes a catfish or bass gets thrown in too if it will be for just a short time. The larger fish are destined for fresh fish dinners for us and guests. The smallest BG in this cage are designated as "lunch" for the cage described above. All cages are fed daily. Some of the bluegill overwintered in this intermediate cage, and are now near trophy size.

The third cage is the rehab area. It is for fish that have swallowed a hook, fish that are bleeding because of being hooked in the gills, or that have otherwise been injured when pulled out of the water.

I've been trained by Sunil in the fine art of using a "disgorger" to save fish from immediate death.
-- but, I'm still not the expert he is. Sunil is good enough at this to be a brain surgeon.

Any that have been deep hooked go into this rehab cage or get immediately filleted for dinner. If we cannot reasonably remove a hook from a fish we are not ready to eat, we use the commonly advised method of cutting the line several inches from the fish's mouth. They go into this 'purgatory" cage. Nearly all of them die within hours, most die within a few days. Same with bleeding fish that have had hooks impacted or removed from their gills. If any of the fish in this cage survive several days, they go in the holding cage.

I guess I could have saved all this rhetoric by just saying that about 80% of deeply hooked or bleeding fish don't make it. They become turtle or raccoon dinners. Close to 100% of lip-hooked fish live and become fat and lazy if put into two of my three cages.

Anyway, from my perspective, mishandled fish just don't seem to live to old age.

Another device that works well is called a hook-out and I believe it was originally developed for trout.

From everything I have witnessed if the fish is bleeding at all, I won't release it, but if you can unhook a deeply hooked fish without any hemorrhage the chances of survival are decent.

In Wisconsin our early trout season (starts the first of March every year) is mandatory artificial and barbless hooks. Implementing this rule into your pond greatly reduces hook related mortality.