Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
jessmendez, TEC, SonnyT, AFGJDM, Legiboka
17,993 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics40,139
Posts546,951
Members17,994
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 27,325
ewest 21,189
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 14,649
Who's Online Now
1 members (For the Family), 646 guests, and 92 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840
M
MRHELLO Offline OP
Lunker
OP Offline
Lunker
M
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840
Ok I have had a tank setup with tilapia in it the last two years and plan to do it again this year.

We have moved to a new home and a concern I have is, should I put it directly on the ground, on some pallets, stepping stones, etc.?

At the old house we just had it on the driveway of the detached garage, but do not have that option here.

I just want some ideas as to what I could or should place this on to make it safe for the tank and the fish that are in it.

Thanks

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 27,325
Likes: 472
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 27,325
Likes: 472
If you have a bottom drain, it might be easier putting it up in the air, but if not, I don't think it matters.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,315
F
Offline
F
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,315
Are you concerned because the new spot is on bare earth?

Esshup brings up a good point.

Don't know if it would matter in this case, but floors are often well insulated because of heat loss thru the ground, that is if you are heating it.

I am very curious about your old setup and the new one. Do you have any descriptive posts in the past about it?

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840
M
MRHELLO Offline OP
Lunker
OP Offline
Lunker
M
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840
Should have been more clear. It does not have a bottom drain. I had thought about putting one in and this would require that I raise it off the ground but at this time that is not the case.

My main concern was the direct contact with ground (bare earth), damaging the tank or causing the water to cool quicker than if I had it on a pallet or say stepping stones.

I do plan to heat it, but by the time I get my fish I may not need to until the fall, unless it stays cold or I just want to jump start their spawning.

My original plan was to get some from Rex in Jan-Feb as I have been wanting to try out the Blues and figured this would have given them a chance to pull off a spawn or two in my tank, where I could have kept them and moved my larger breeders to my pond.

But since the new house renovation has taken longer than planed and I did not get them ordered when I wanted to may be a little late to grow them out enough so they do not get eaten.

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,649
Likes: 289
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,649
Likes: 289
Consider putting the tank up on cement blocks with maybe styrofoam sheeeting under the tank for insolation. Cecil Baird1 is using an easy to install bottom drain fitting called a Uniseal instead of an expensive bulk head fitting that could be used as a smaller sized bottom drain. He may see this and advise us.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=276331#Post276331

Last edited by Bill Cody; 04/19/13 10:01 AM.

aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
I have modified the system to make it cheaper and easier to build. I now connect an external stand pipe to the center drain and purge the solids out around the drain twice a day by pulling up a gate valve. I still use an upflow filter with a u tube siphon but no connection to the tank other than the siphon. I also now use a moving bed bioreactor filter vs. the RBC. Just built my third RBC for a conference demo and they are getting expensive to build. Close to $500.00 in materials. The moving bed filter is much cheaper to build and works pretty good.

I hope to get the pics of the news system put together for a newsletter article tomorrow and can post them here if anyone is interested.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/20/13 10:05 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,649
Likes: 289
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,649
Likes: 289
Yes many are definately interested in your new techniques to raise fish indoors. Looking forward to your helpful info.


aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Mr. Hello,

If you feel the following is a hijack of your thread please let me know and I'm sure Bill can move it to a thread of it's own.



Concrete blocks set up outside for the fish tank. This will be part of an aquaponics set up as soon as the weather gets warmer.

I absolutely hate transporting the blocks from the place of purchase and setting them up due to the weight etc.! However, they are the cheapest thing I have found to elevate a tank.




My favorite type of tank to use for a fish tank. It's a liquid storage tank I purchased that was cut down for me by a nearby factory that makes them. This one is 5 feet in diameter. I had it cut at 26 inches in height. Cost was about $100 minus sales tax.

I like it because it's smooth as a baby's butt inside which allows settleable solids to easily move to the center drain. Stock tanks typically have ribs to reinforce them which allows solids to collect on those ribs. Don't despair if your only option is plastic stock tank. It will work.

Notice the hole cut in the center. It's where the Uniseal goes for the center drain. You MUST use a hole saw to make this hole precise! Otherwise you will have a leak!






A top and side view of the Uniseal(TM) that snaps into the hole cut for it with the hole saw. The material is a space age rubber called MPR, and is rated at 40 psi and warranted for 25 years. They hold pressure and vacuum, and are immune to cold temps. AES/Pentair has them as do several places on the Internet. Cost for a 3 inch as shown is about $7.00. Try getting a 3 inch bulkhead fitting for that price. And a Uniseal (TM) is easier to install IMHO.

The way they work is, they snap into the hole that is cut and when the pipe is forced through they expand creating a seal.
















Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/21/13 03:11 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1





The center drain which is a 3 inch PVC shower drain that has been inserted into and glued to a short section of PVC pipe. A piece of plastic was cut to make a shim that looks like a washer. It fits under the lip of the shower drain and sticks out a little. This is to keep the shower drain lip from pulling through the Uniseal (TM). It doesn't take much to keep the shower drain from slipping through, so any waterproof material should work. Perhaps a hardware store has a rubber washer that is right size? Or a piece of aluminum? I used what I had on hand which was a plastic wall covering.



A side view of the shower drain, plastic shim, Uniseal(TM) ans short section of PVC pipe.

To install the center drain you first must bevel the lip of the end of the PVC pipe with a grinder to make it easier for it to pass through the Uniseal(TM). Or you can cut the end of the PVC pipe diagonally but you'll have to cut that end off once you get it through. I prefer the former. You will also need Vaseline (TM) smeared on the PVC pipe to help it slide through easier.

Anyway, after gluing the PVC shower drain to the PVC pipe pop the Uniseal into the hole in the bottom of tank. Next slide the plastic washer shim up the PVC pipe under the lip of the shower drain. Then shove pipe though the Uniseal(TM) until the shower drain is level with the Uniseal(TM). Now you have a leak proof center drain where fish can't escape!

Another reason I prefer a Uniseal (TM) over a bulkhead fitting is there is less of a lip for solids to get trapped up against vs. a bulkhead fitting.


Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/21/13 01:06 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
The drain pipe which connects to an external stand pipe. The Fernco rubber coupler on the right connects to the section of PVC coming down from the center drain. The Fernco rubber coupler on the left connects to the 't' assembly in the second picture,which is where the external stand pipe rests inside. Note the 't' is 4 inch vs. the rest of the drain pipe which is 3 inches.





The 4 inch pipe is inserted into the 4 inch 't'. It's not glued.




The purpose of the Fernco couplers is for easy disassembly of the system if you want to move it. Also cleaning of pipes, hoses, etc. if the system is shut down.

The following is the drain pipe and 4 inch 't' in service. You can't see where it runs under the tank and up the center train due to the clarifer tank to the left.

Note the drain line on the floor that is connected to the rear of the 't'. Twice a day an hour after feeding the gate valve in front of the 't' is pulled up for about 5 seconds and then closed, which violently pulls out about 2 gallons of water to the top of the 't.' This removes and dislodges solids in and around the center drain. Once the purged water and solids are purged the ball valve the behind the 't' is opened. Then the external stand pipe is scoured out with a garden hose and nozzle.



The hose that comes out of the 't' that connects to a barb fitting. Note the ball valve.






Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/21/13 01:03 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
A membrane diffuser connected to an air line is mounted to the shower drain via a couple of zip ties, or a hose clamp -- that was pre-threaded through the vents in the drain -- before gluing the shower drain to the PVC pipe.

Note the assembly is attached to membrance diffuser to mount the hose vertically to keep it off the bottom of the tank.



The entire drain system including the external stand pipe minus the tank.




Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/21/13 12:51 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,649
Likes: 289
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,649
Likes: 289
Nice and simple way of making a tank to raise fish. Creative and efficient. Thanks for sharing this info for others to learn.


aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
Nice and simple way of making a tank to raise fish. Creative and efficient. Thanks for sharing this info for others to learn.


But there's more... grin

Still need to cover the mechanical and biological filter.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Even though the center drain and external stand pipe removes a considerable amount of settleable solids, and allows me to not have to do a water change for 3 to 5 days, a mechanical filter is still needed to strain out the suspended solids in the water column.

The mechanical filter consists of a 55 gallon drum that is packed with almost one roll of deer fence garden netting available at most big box stores like Menards, and some filter pads from Stoney Creek Equipment Company.



Note the u-tube siphon in the tank that works by gravity. That is, it pulls water from the water column of the fish tank to the bottom of the 55 gallon drum under the netting and filter pads. It does this due to the fact that water is being pulled out of the top of the 55 gallon drum via a small pump.

The u-tube siphon and a couple of end caps.



It's primed by simply submerging it in the fish tank and temporarily capping the end that is lifted out of the fish tank into the 55 gallon drum. The will run indefinitely as long as both ends are under water.

Suspended particulate is trapped in the filter material as the water gets pulled up through it.

Every four or five days an extension of the u-tube siphon in the drum is removed and the siphon capped (see picture of u-tube siphon) and a drain is opened in a drain hose in the bottom of the tank. The pump is also temporarily hung in the fish tank and kept running.

Once the water is drained out of the drum the filter material is sprayed off with a garden hose and nozzle and placed temporarily in garbage can or other drum. The empty tank is scoured out with the garden hose and completely drained and then the ball valve in the drain hose is closed again.

Clean water is put into the drum, and the filter material and pump replaced as before.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/21/13 01:26 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,649
Likes: 289
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,649
Likes: 289
CB1 - So the solids in the tank tend to collect and accumulate under the diffuser? Then when the gate valve is opened they are pulled out the drain?

Last edited by Bill Cody; 04/21/13 01:36 PM.

aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
CB1 - So the solids in the tank tend to collect and accumulate under the diffuser?


The settlable solids do, while the suspended solids (solids that won't or haven't settled) get siphoned to the clarifier tank via the u-tube siphon and trapped in the filter material.

The diffusers pushes air up obviously, which causes water to rise right above the diffuser but to drop farther out and make it's way back to the center drain. Also the the inflow of the returning water to the fish tank from the biofilter (covered in the next post) is directed tangentially to the fish tank wall, which causes a spinning motion in the fish tank that also directs solids to the center drain. For those that don't know it's known as centripetal flow or the "tea cup effect."

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/21/13 01:33 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,649
Likes: 289
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,649
Likes: 289
Neat set up and good way to raise fish. I assume you will use something like this to raise the trout fry-fingerlings?
I was told by a fish raiser that the settlable solids mostly manure is the biggest cause of ammonia and deterioriated water quality in a RAS. Do you think that is true?.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 04/21/13 01:40 PM.

aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
So far there is a way to periodically purge settleable solids from the tank and a way to filter out suspended solids or solids that have not settled yet.

What is also needed in a system that reuses water is a biological filter. That's because fish give of ammonia NH4+, which can poison them regardless of how clean the water looks or is aerated. The killer is actually the unionized form know as NH3, in which the percentage of unionized is dependent on PH and water temperature in relation to total ammonia (NH4). Most is give off by the fishes gills but waste products produce ammonia also.

There are all kinds of biofilters, which are simply a provision for a surface area beneficial bacteria can live on and thrive. But most importantly these bacteria oxidize ammonia an convert it to nitrites (also poisonous but not as much as ammonia) and then to nitrates which are fairly benign with exceptions depending on species and high concentration.

My favorite filter is a rotating biocontact filter (RBC) but the third one I just built for a demonstraton at an aquaculure conference cost me close to $500.00 in materials. From now on any new systems I build for the high schools I set up will use a simpler and cheaper biofilter that will run about $165.00 to build. It also has a smaller footprint than the RBC.

Here's one I'm using now in my winter system.



It's simply a 55 gallon drum with a diffuser mounted in the bottom connected to an air line. There is also an intake where water from the top of the clarifier tank pump runs in which is located close to the bottom of the tank. Near the top of the tank is outlet which dumps back into the fish tank. The outlet is screened to keep plastic media in.

The plastic media you see in the picture is called MB3 and is available for $25.00 per cubic foot from Water Management Technologies. There's another one called Kaldness that runs twice as much and doesn't work as well IMHO as it's much smaller and clogs with film easier.

http://www.w-m-t.com/Products/WaterTek_MB3_Moving_Bed_Media.php

You will need 3 to 4 cubic feet of media for the drum.

Basically bacteria lives and grows on the media as the air keeps mixing the media tunbling it in the tank and provided oxygen to this aerobic bacteria. Old bacteria film which is less productive is scoured off. It's also a self cleaning media vs some other types of systems that have to be periodically cleaned.

There is no drain line on this biofilter drum as it's not needed.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/21/13 02:04 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
Neat set up and good way to raise fish. I assume you will use something like this to raise the trout fry-fingerlings?
I was told by a fish raiser that the settlable solids mostly manure is the biggest cause of ammonia and deterioriated water quality in a RAS. Do you think that is true?.


Actually contrary to popular belief the most ammonia is given off by the fish's gills.

The settleable solids are the easiest to remove. Suspended solids are the most difficult due to the fact that they are quite small in diameter down to a few microns and want to stay suspended in the water column.

That said, the smaller a fish is, the more often it eats and the more fecal material it produces. That coupled with the fact that many producers crowd their fry to get the best feeding response, it's really important to keep their tank as clean as possible to prevent gill infections.

I will be doing something like this but a much smaller tank initially to keep them crowded as I only need to produce a few hundred trout a year.

I'll be using recirculated water to hatch them which most don't do but things are changing.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/21/13 02:06 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,649
Likes: 289
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,649
Likes: 289
What are the curved PVC pipes for on the top of the biofilter tank?


aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
What are the curved PVC pipes for on the top of the biofilter tank?


Oh sorry. That's where I drape shade cloth to keep it dark in the bio tank. The bacteria prefer darkness.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692
J
JKB Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker
J
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692
Do they still have those white tanks available?

Poo on moving cement blocks too!

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: JKB
Do they still have those white tanks available?


From time to time. I usually tell them what I'm looking for and they come up with one eventually. They don't seem to be seconds. Not sure what the deal is. However I went to school and ran track and cross country with the sales guy's dad. It seemed to score some points for me.

Originally Posted By: JKB
Poo on moving cement blocks too!


Believe it or not one of my dad's first jobs before he went into the military was loading those concrete blocks on pallets by hand. I think he was 15 or so and weighted 130 lbs. soaking wet. Said he was so tired when he got home he ate and went to bed and woke up the next morning to go at it again.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/21/13 08:40 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692
J
JKB Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker
J
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692
I was trying to find a picture earlier where I bought 15 pallets of 10" 3 core heavy duty blocks. 13 pallets of 67 blocks each went for 5 bucks a pallet, the other two went for 15 and 20 bucks, respectively. (bidding war) Cement co. bit the dust!

Just looked at these today, and I have to move them again?

I'm thinking Craig's List at .75 each, and they move them!

Buddy of mine gave me 275 10" 2 core from a property his brother bought. Previous owner failed at building a house in the allotted time, and the gub took it and auctioned it off.

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840
M
MRHELLO Offline OP
Lunker
OP Offline
Lunker
M
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840
Ok just put in 25 Goldfish to try and get my system primed and ready for Tilapia if I ever get a chance to go pick them up.

Do you think the Goldfish is enough to get it ready or should I add more than 25 to the tank?

I also thought about adding up to a pound of FHM to the tank as well to speed up the process.

Any feedback would be helpful.

Thanks

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
A.K.A., Charles Crews, rrambo, Todd_B
Recent Posts
Retirement ponds
by esshup - 01/31/23 11:56 PM
Kubota, LS, Branson & Mahindra Tractors
by esshup - 01/31/23 10:16 PM
Iced Over
by esshup - 01/31/23 10:09 PM
Cattle Ranch Ponds
by esshup - 01/31/23 10:06 PM
Question on Christmas trees
by esshup - 01/31/23 09:57 PM
Creating a lake budget.
by esshup - 01/31/23 09:56 PM
Bass are tearing up the shad
by ewest - 01/31/23 12:52 PM
What did you do at your pond today?
by Pat Williamson - 01/31/23 12:31 PM
New 1.5 Ac pond in NC. YP for harvest is my goal.
by BCR Pond - 01/31/23 10:30 AM
Rainbow trout to grow big bass.
by esshup - 01/31/23 09:41 AM
Adding Vegetation
by Bill Cody - 01/30/23 11:11 AM
How to catch catfish in a bucket
by esshup - 01/30/23 11:05 AM
Newly Uploaded Images
Alligator Ice
Alligator Ice
by Theo Gallus, December 30
Union Valley
Union Valley
by TX Chris, December 19
Pond Renovation
Pond Renovation
by ArkieJig, December 15
Test_Pic_Again
Test_Pic_Again
by FireIsHot, December 14
Pumpkinseeds From Pond
Pumpkinseeds From Pond
by Perch Pond, December 11
Help Me ID These Fish
Help Me ID These Fish
by LarryBud, December 3

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5