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Trader #322405 02/17/13 09:22 PM
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James, how large is your pond and how long have you had it. Just wondering how long the GSD might have been in there.

Trader #322407 02/17/13 09:31 PM
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Ewest, I've thought about tilapia, but I don't really want to have to restock annually. I'm looking for someone who has a similar size pond that has managed it responsibly and stocked GSH (from what I'm reading, many seem to think its irresponsible to stock GSD). That being the case have you had disastrous results (anyone with a personal story).

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Have seen bad results. We don't use them - to much risk. The cost to rehab a bigger pond is too high and you lose severl years.
















Trader #322418 02/17/13 10:29 PM
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They came in our back pond in 2011 via a flood.There are a several lakes in the river shed but I don't know anyone with the gizzards. They got to be 10 in. this year. I may be able to tell you something about them in a couple of years. If I were you I would follow the experts' advice.


Two ponds, 13 and 15 acres on the Mattaponi River.
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Originally Posted By: kenc
Esshup,isn't it true that most lakes decline after ten or so years but rivers,tidal and freshwater stay the same.Any thoughts why?


I've never heard that. Maybe because the fish have a larger area that they can travel to?

That lake that I mentioned was killed (rotenoned) in '67 and it stayed a great fishery for longer than 10 years, closer to 20.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Trader #322432 02/17/13 11:48 PM
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I respect everyone's comments concerning gizzard shad; many years of experience here which is why I love the forum. Frankly we've had a tough time getting them established where we wanted them. In other systems they've entered through the watershed. The difference between lakes with gizzards and those without is significant when looking at abundance of bass over 8 lbs. Like Bob says in his book (its been a while since I read it so cut me some slack, I'm old) gizzards are present in most lakes he sees or manages for trophy bass. Correct me Bob if I'm wrong on that.

Trader, get back with SE and look closely at your data, both bluegill and bass size frequencies, your annual harvest, and seriously pinpoint your goals. They have experience with this situation. Unless you can manage for an extremely low standing stock of bass, or low total pounds of bass per acre (much lower than you have now), you will need an additional prey item that grows large. You may have to partial poison down the road to remove a segment of large adult gizzards. Or you may have to start over. Drop a gill net in there in the winter to see what your shad population looks like after two years. There are tools to monitor and correct. Yes they cost. Only you can decide if its worth it. Our clients that use gizzards grow big, honkin bass. To date we have not seen an issue them growing beyond the bass and taking up space. I have seen it in larger public reservoirs and it certainly can happen.

Its really no different than any other risk we weigh-is it worth the reward. This forum is evidence that no two ponds act the same...all the time...so results may vary. My original comment about the age of your bass population still should be considered and discussed with SE. One of your biggest variables is whether you have the horsepower in your bass to grow to the next level, regardless of what they eat.


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Trader #322454 02/18/13 09:50 AM
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Thanks for the comments Wade. I was'nt sure what you meant by this though:

"Unless you can manage for an extremely low standing stock of bass, or low total pounds of bass per acre (much lower than you have now), you will need an additional prey item that grows large"

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Fewer LMB (weight & numbers) per acre or you need more forage of the right size.
















Trader #322462 02/18/13 10:15 AM
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Bill alerted me to this thread. After wades post not much more to add other than I agree with his statements. Trader if you would like a second opinion lets us know however based on what SEPM has told you seems like your ready for GZ shad. Everything you read about the potential issues is true. However we do not see as many issues as much as touted.

It all goes back to goals. I tell clients when u get tired of catching 6 lb bass time to step it up with GZ. We just got back from Nashville meeting at the southern division AFS and there was a poster presentation on selective rotenone for Removal of GZ and the toxicity gap is big for most other sportfish species. I'm all for it if you have a well established big bass population. We shock lots lakes and there is not doubt much higher percentage of large bass where GZ reside.


Greg Grimes
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Trader #322506 02/18/13 04:52 PM
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We lease over 50 lakes, many with Gizzard shad. The lakes that consistently, produce the largest bass have gizzard shad in them. I have not seen a lake that has been ruined by them, although I believe the horror stories. The key is to make sure that your bass population has a stable population of large bass. A lake with lots of 1 to 2 lb bass and the rare 8 lb is not a good candidate.

Trader #322513 02/18/13 05:14 PM
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Steve,how do you know if you have a stable pop. of large bass? We have a big bass pond that seems to have very few 8 in.-15in. bass. Where does the next generation come from? The big ones are getting more hook-shy each year and we find a few big dead ones with big stomachs that did not starve.


Two ponds, 13 and 15 acres on the Mattaponi River.
Trader #322565 02/18/13 09:05 PM
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Thanks for the post Greg. I started this post wanting solid opinions, experience and feedback about GSD. I think I'm certainly getting that. Based on my goals, I've wanted to add larger forage for a couple of years. SE pond discouraged me from adding GSH last year. I brought up GSD early this year and they thought it would work. They of course brought up the negatives but did not try to talk me out of it. Noticed you are located in Ga. Do you have any clients in Alabama?

This is a great selling line:

"I tell clients when u get tired of catching 6 lb bass time to step it up with GZ."

Got to fish today with a buddy (off for President's day). Tough conditions, 15-20 mph winds all day. Four hours of fishing, caught only three....a 2.8, 5.5 and a 6. Fortunately my friend caught them all. I would be an easy sell with the above quote!

Steve, appreciate your comments. I've been wanting to hear from pond owners with GSD. Looks like you are in touch with a lot of pond owners. Spent some time on your web site. Looks like some great fishing ponds!

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Thanks we cover the entire SE worked in 12 states last year. We have maybe 6 clients in AL we do fish surveys for. If interested in bid just email us an address. I think you are making an informed decision with your goals and the risk versus reward factor is leaning in your favor.

Ken best way to determine population size structure is electrofishing. If. You are indeed low in bass recuirment then you may need selective removal of GZ or reduction in crappie. The info u learn from a proper survey and well written report is hard to beat.


Greg Grimes
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Greg, I have been told my pond won't electshock well because of it being a gravel pit. When you come off the bank 3 ft. it goes srraight down to about 11-13 ft. We take out a hundred pounds of fish an acre each year, all croppie(1359) or cc(245) last year.


Two ponds, 13 and 15 acres on the Mattaponi River.
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Trader - If you decide to use g.shad, please return periodically (maybe each year) and advise us about how your 12 ac AL pond is progressing. We are interested in what you learn about using gizzard shad for increasing the size and numbers of your larger bass. Thanks and good luck on this project.


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Trader #322640 02/19/13 11:26 AM
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Ok Bill, thanks for all of your comments. I will certainly do my best to report back periodically over the next few years with feedback amd results.

Trader #322945 02/21/13 07:38 PM
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I have Gizzards in my pond for several years now, it's a 1 acre pond. Yes, the Bass get big, but very difficult to catch. They just eat a shad every several days and they're all set. I can't say I would do it again (stocking Shad) but it's not been a huge problem either.

kenc #323179 02/23/13 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: kenc
Steve,how do you know if you have a stable pop. of large bass? We have a big bass pond that seems to have very few 8 in.-15in. bass. Where does the next generation come from? The big ones are getting more hook-shy each year and we find a few big dead ones with big stomachs that did not starve.


There are a couple of ways to determine if you have a stable population of large bass. 1) electroshock survey. 2) catch reports.

My guess is that your larger bass are canabilizing your younger bass. Having larger forage, like tilapia or gizzard shad might be ideal for your lake.

If your fish are hook shy it could be too much fishing pressure or you may have removed most of the more vunerable (easier to catch) fish over the years. Since vunerability is a genetic trait being passed down; adding new genetics may be of benefit. Not sure if your fish are primarily F cross's, Florida's, or native bass, but adding more native genetics will help with your catch rates, but you are giving up size potential. Don't you hate tradeoffs?

Trader #323187 02/23/13 12:37 PM
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Thanks for the info,Steve. We have been told that it will not shock good as it is a bowl dug pit. If you go 3 ft. off the bank it drops to 11-13 ft. Gizzards came with the last flood and are growing fast. Tilapia are banned in Va. The pond was never stocked as it floods from the Mattaponi River. It has no watershed and is fed by underground springs. We never take out any bass but we don't go up but on the weekend so other people do poach both ponds. Ther are at least 20 diff. spieces of fish in the back pond. we had a bad drought last year and the big bass got sores early so I quit fishing for them in May and worked on the croppie and catfish. Do you think it would be a good idea to stock 15 in. bass this fall?


Two ponds, 13 and 15 acres on the Mattaponi River.
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I think managing a pond that floods from a nearby river is futile. When you have little to no control of what enters the lake and all kinds of rough fish can enter you are probably wasting your time. We lease a 250 acre private lake that floods once or twice a year and it is full of rough fish. We accept the lake for what it is; as we have a handfull of members who enjoy catching buffalo, carp, and catfish. But managing a lake like this for bass is futile in my opinion.

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Steve, believe it or not it is a good big bass 12-18 acre pond. I usually catch 45-50 big bass a year(20-26 in.) but only caught 18 last year. I have never caught or seen a gar,carp or sucker(my wife married the biggest one in Va.) but we do take out 100 lbs. of croppie and catfish per acre a year. We are on the headwaters of the Mattaponi where it is very tannic but I have no idea why there appears to be no rough fish.


Two ponds, 13 and 15 acres on the Mattaponi River.
Trader #410037 05/03/15 07:18 PM
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Following up on my Gizzard shad post from two years ago:

I had a load of Gizzard Shad put into my pond in 5/13. I was not there when they were delivered and frankly have not seen one until yesterday (I have not shocked since 2/13). Yesterday I noticed a couple of fish spawning on a shallow bank. I was able to get a great look at them from the bank. They were about 7-8 inches long and a little thicker than the threadfin. Saw a few more down the bank but they swam away as I approached.

In my original post I stated that since 2005 I had caught 48 LMB in the 5-8 pound range and I wanted to try and step things up to the next level, so was considering adding some Gizzard Shad. Had some great discussion on this forum.

In the Summer of 2013 (after adding the Gizzard), I caught two 8.5's. Then between March of 2014 and March of 2015 I caught a 9 pounder and two 9.5 pounders. My over 5 pound total is up to 90 LMB as of today, so the pond is still producing and I'm assuming the Gizzard are helping put some weight on the the bigger fish. I know it's still in the early stages but I am very pleased with the experiment so far.

Thanks!

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Great update. Snap a pic when you land a bass with the shad tail sticking from its throat!

BTW, I wasn't active when you started your topic, but consider adding trout at least October-March. My LMB love the trout, easy to swallow, high protein, and I've noticed the positive weight gain.

Last edited by basslover; 05/03/15 08:08 PM.
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