Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Fertilization fertilizing and watermeal

Is it a good or bad idea to fertilize a pond that has watermeal before the stuff first shows up?
Thanks for the advice

turkeyfootnc,

Fertilization is a somewhat controversial topic.

My experience goes counter to the norm which says fertilize to increase fish production and reduce weeds.

I may get further de-starred, but my experience says you should never fertilize if you have existing vegitation. The theory explained to me(on this forum) was that if you fertilize, then plankton blooms will cause the water to become less clear, resulting in less sunlight penetration, and presto no submersed weeds.

Maybe that works for someone somewhere, but for me it was a disaster. The weeds exploded in growth with fertilization, ruined my pond for fishing and most anything else, and if it were not for some serious stocking of Tilapia and grass carp, I never would have recovered...without using more chemicals to kill all the weeds that my other chemicals created.

Fertilizer....never again.

Meadowlark learned the hard way. Fertilization should be done only in ponds where rooted vegetation and filamentous algae are not present or at minimum amounts. Theory is that fertilization should start before weeds and algae start to grow. Putting fertilizer in a pond with filamentous algae and or rooted weeds is like puting more wood on a fire. Existing plants are stimulated by additional nutrinets and usually outcompete the phytoplankton.

Turk, fertilizer is a tool that should be used carefully when needed and not before. At one time it was almost a mantra on this site. Meadowlark has a good reason for not using it and I have another one. Rainfall is not a sure thing in my area. It is true that "doping" a pond will increase the carrying capacity. However, if you get hot summers with a lot of evaporation, you can have way too much living biomass for the water. This can cause an oxygen depletion problem with a resulting fish kill. The die off usually starts with the larger fish.

You can start out with a great pond that has 150% (or some #) of the carrying capacity. Then after the summer heat you just might wind up with 75% of the ponds water capacity with the same 150% life in it. Mama Nature always gets even.

Meadowlark I agree with you on this one. No one really answered specifically for watermeal. It grows on the surface so no feritlzing will not help shad it out. IN fact nutrient loading is one of the worst things to do for watermeal. SO DO NOT FETILIZE A POND WITH WATERMEAL PLEASE! We work lots of problem ponds with this stuff I feel for the pondowner but by reducing nutreints we have had better luck ridding of the world's smallest plant.

Meadow/Cody I agre this time but I'm still fighting you on the postivies of fertilizer though. You make your point every chance you get about the potential negatives of pond fertilizaiton. I'm just surprised more people have not stood up for how important it is in SE ponds where we have naturally poor prodution.

Glad you have your inputs but if I was a pondowenr from GA and read some of the post about feritlizing I would think it is the worst pond mgmt pratice. While in reality "depending on goals" it is probably the most important aspect.

Greg :

I am with you on this one. Meadowlark is also correct. Each pond is different and requires its own plan. What is the goal for that pond and how does it react to management. If all you want in the SE is water with a few skinny fish then don't fertilize {or feed}.

For the Southeast in general {not all areas but most} lime and fertilizer are required to have a bass/BG pond that an average pond owner {who wants good fishing} would want. Without a lime and fert. program most ponds in the SE would have little production . My estimate is a carrying capicity of 75 lbs of fish per acre or less. The visability would be 3-10 feet, alkalinity would be 8-12ppm and ph in the high stress range. Couple that with FA because of deep light penetration and you have a place where you can't grow fish in acceptable amounts or quality. That is why the applicable state agencies and pond management companies in the SE stress lime and fert. as basic tools. It is a tool for propper management. Just as a carpenter would not throw away his saw and hammer a pond mgr. in the SE should not refuse a lime/fert. program where appropriate.

The use of a lime/fert. program must be done correctly and on a pond by pond basis . You do not want to over fert. especially mid july- sept.. Lack of rain is usually not a problem but must be watched. Unwanted weeds can be a problem but can be managed. On weeds , an ounce of prevention is worth 10 lbs. of cure . Work on the weed problems with winter draw downs and early in the spring with removal manually or as a last resort chemically.

An unanswered question in the SE is to what extent can you replace the fert. part {not the lime part} of the equation with a massive feeding program. You will not have the base of the food chain {plankton} to support the fish population , but can you replace it by feeding the fish? What is the proper balance between the two and how do you achieve it? I hope someone has an easy answer. Thanks --ewest

I gotta agree that liming and fertilizing is an absolute must in most SE ponds.

I don't see how you could replace phytoplankton with feeding. Tiny fry can't utilize pellets and can't travel to the areas where you have a feeder, no matter what you are feeding.

I have a 3 acre pond in central Georgia. I wanna throw in my 2 cents about fertilizing and feeding.

My pond drains a HUGE watershed and has water flowing through it most of the year. I have tried fertilizing and the water never stays in the pond long enough to achieve a bloom.

Greg Grimes has visited my pond on a couple of occasions and discussed this with me. We decided on a feeding program to feed the coppernose BG as a partial offset to not fertilizing. I have 3 Stren feeders and have them going three times a day now that temps are in the 70's.

So another reason NOT to fertilize - high water flow.

Just my 2 cents..

Frank

Frank,

Just curious...how long (seconds) are you running the Strens? I've got two Strens feeding a 3.5 acre pond running about 7 seconds each twice a day.

Just wanted to compare notes. Thanks.

Dave :

You are correct. Plankton can't be replaced. It will be there naturally . It is a question of the % mix.

The idea is to find the right balance between no fert.{just feeders} and heavy fert. to get the best result {meet owners goals]. The theory is : 1- new hatchlings eat the existing plankton ,etc. , 2- and everything else 2in. and up eat what they can catch plus food from the feeders ,3- bass eat as usual. The unknown is what is the optimum mix for any given pond. The benefit is you get good fish growth with much less fert. {less weed problems}, and as a result less need to lime , along with clearer water for other recreational purposes . The negatives are cost , nutrient load from any excess food and waste and the difficulty in managing the relationships of so many factors.

I did not intend to imply that the mixed approach was correct , easy or certain. That is why I said it was an unanswered question. I have seen varying degrees of this method used. I can't judge the outcomes except to note that the owner's goals were apparently met. Thanks--ewest

ewest,
well stated in both post. You're right not an easy answer. It is funny I harp on fertilizer but fertilize less than 20% of clients. Like Frank said too much water, no desire to maximize production (not enough bass taken out anyway), asethetics, etc.

I do try to compensate with feeding program for lack of fertilizaiton program. Not sure it equals out?? But the fact is fertilizing a pond attempts to promtoe more phyto to reach more zoo plankton to grow more aquatic insects TO DO WHAT? that's right to feed bluegill. So if we can feed the bluegill properly it does make up for lack of fertilzing. As far as total produciton in lbs sounds like a research project to me.

Meadowlark

I am only running my three Stren ADF 75 for one second three times a day. I try to see that the food is consumed in 15 minutes. I probably could run it longer.

By the way, I also have approx 70 hybrid stripers I got from Greg last May (May 2004). They really hit the feed!

Frank

I want to mention a special problem with fertilization. I think of filamentous algae as facts of life. Fish around the stuff and forget it, I say. .

But Herself really, really hates the sight of the "green slime monster" in the pond. She's not overly fond of the smell, either, but then I also have to explain to her on frequent occasions that the fishy smell of a bream bed is a good thing. Almost as much, she hates my beautiful pea-soup bloom. I hear murmurs of "sanitary lagoon" and "How can you eat something that BREATHES that garbage all day?" (Today's shocker for the boss was when I let it slip that the geese "do number 2" in the water. I had my head in that proverbial dark place at the time.) Have I mentioned that my better half is a city girl transplanted to the country? When I took her out west to visit relatives, she was shocked to discover my aunt making tamales. Apparently she thought they grew on tamale trees, each cluster surrounded by a can.

Well, I had 170 lb. of Tilapia nilotica delivered today. I have assured her that they will eat the green slime, so please don't anyone tell me anything different. I also sorta'' implied that they would filter out the pea soup phytoplankton, as well. In fact I promised that I would make sure that the water would be clear by winter. Not a lie, after all!

By the way, can anyone tell me why oil of clove knocks fish out so well? That's really impressive stuff. In the end, they all woke up and were fine, but I was nervous for a while.
Lou, Shelby Cnty., AL 13.5 acres

Lou, oil of clove? What did you do with it and why?

BTW, when my wife and I started dating, outdoors, to her, was the patio. On the first trip to my rural getaway, tarantulas were breeding and were all over the road. The worlds biggest king snake crawled across over her foot. She had no idea that Dutch Ovens were good for anything but bean pots and could not relate to sleeping outdoors. Had I not been the handsomest, richest Texan anywhere, she would have dumped me. She later found out that I was durn near broke but good looks saved the relationship. Yeah, sure.

The oil of cloves was squirted in the carrying tank by the gentleman who delivered the Tilapia. They averaged a pound apiece and were very frisky. If he hadn't calmed them, he said, they could have damaged themselves in the net as he dipped them out. The stuff made them meek as kittens for about 5 minutes. Then they began to wake up and to school, swimming off into the pond in groups of 3 to 6 or so. They sure are pretty things, and if nilotica really do like filamentous algae, they will be very well fed.

I tried to look up oil of cloves but couldn't find anything useful about its mechanism of action. Apparently, it is used sometimes to euthanize aquarium fish. ("Why not euthanize them the same way I euthanize my bluegill? Or why not flush them and give them a fighting chance?" I wondered–but I'm just a country boy and sort of simple.) I also found an all-too-typical government document which strictly forbade using oil of cloves on fish which were ever to be eaten, even though the stuff is approved for direct human consumption. Ours is not to wonder why, only to pay and obey. Thanks, Uncle Sam!

As for tarantulas and king snakes, I know I ain't that good looking, because the first time would have been the last time, and she would be back in Atlanta if all that had happened to Herself.
Lou